GGG has given up on meaningful combat?

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

Combat? No, I want to skip combat. Campaign? No, I want to skip campaign. Bosses? No, I want to skip bosses.

Just look at how they're reacting to that crafting change too. And don't get me wrong, I too think that crafting should be more deterministic... it's why it is called crafting and not gambling. But that's not why these people are upset about it... it's all about the power loss. That's why they're so upset about it.

In everything they ask for, it's literally the same pattern. Instant gratification.

They want it FAST, they want it NOW.

It's not as simple as this for many players. I personally enjoy fast 1 button builds in end game but I'm also happy to start out slow and weak. I'm happy to progressively get stronger over many hours of grinding. I do not want campaign skip, in fact I enjoy the slower starts of campaign runs for what they are.

But yeah I ultimately want to get to point in end game where my build is destroying the screen easily.

What do you think meaningful combat means?

ppl just cry in here and do not even know what they cry for.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

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JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 wrote:

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Burn4#0434 wrote:

If the broader gaming audience actually liked the chaotic, off-screen one-shot mechanics of the original game as much as you think, the player numbers would reflect that. It doesn't. Mindless, screen-clearing map blasting is exactly why the franchise stays isolated to a hardcore niche. The reality is that the casual audience wants actual visual clarity and mechanical interaction, not a zoom-zoom stat-check simulator where mechanical skill doesn't matter. That specific design friction is exactly what keeps the player base limited.

Why are POE and diablo SO gigantic compared to games like grim dawn and no rest?

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the player numbers would reflect that. It doesn't

But they do.
Congratulations, you have successfully defeated your own argument.

Nothing to do with zoom zoom. When I first played PoE1 it wasn't like this. What people always praised poe for and what it is iconicly known for is the build creation. Which ironically suffers from the homogenization of gameplay via screen clearing and instant boss kills. There is 0 real argument for zoom zoom.

Also Diablo and PoE had the advantage of being through the first games of the genre. PoE being carried by the build stuff. Most other ARPGs devolve into lots of zoom zoom too yet they aren't nearly as popular. It's a disingenuous argument. As you guys typically do.

No Rest comes in a market with already established big players. It did very well for itself so far considering every other ARPG release around it and the EA tag. Also a lot of people like the more genetic graphics PoE has. It even survived the negative reaction of the PoE1 zoom zoom mob.

Also player numbers do reflect that, if you listened to the devs on interviews... most people give up before they reach endgame. And it isn't because there wasn't enough content.

Well, that kind of complex build diversity needs alot of different power vectors that can be combined and that leads to zoom zoom. The only way to have meaningful combat is to destroy build complexity, or else it leads to "zoom zoom", its natural.

As a example, a player fights a monster, the fight should take ten seconds, the monster have 1000 hp.
That means that all builds should do 100 DPS at that level fighting that monster.
Now add a thing such as investment in damage and health with skills and items, and the system starts to break down.
If a player manage to double his damage to 200 dps that means he will get 100% more loot, experience and wealth.
Add Area of effect skills, critical strikes and multiplier, Curses, Auras, Damage increase, More damage multipliers, support gems... it is impossible to have this many damage multipliers.

You would have to remove alot of them or neuter them completly. PoE 1 have damage intervals from 50k damage to billions in the lategame because of build diversity.
Some builds demands alot of time, some needs special rare items and setups, some need special lategame support gems. And if combat is homogeneous in relation to time, explain to me, why play hard to create builds, the time it spends in combat is equal to a very easy build? And why grind for more power?