All these threads about nerfing group play. Here is my opinion GGG

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

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nofacenobb#0630 wrote:

Once again,Is team play fun because you have fun with others or because of the extra loot?

If it is fun, then extra loot is not required. If it is the loot then you don't actually like the team play you just like the extra loot.

Define "extra loot"?

Because of loot is unchanged for party size, that means when me and my friend go into a map together we get half a much loot.

The current 2 player 11% "bonus" just means that me and my friend get 55.5% of the loot we would have gotten playing solo. So it's still not a "bonus" on a per player metric.

You’ve clearly forgotten about the item “Gravebind Rope Cuffs.” The extra loot it provides in a party is a separate multiplier—separate, mind you—and it can stack with extra loot bonuses from the map. Combined with the incredibly high rarity this item gives, party players get a massive chance to roll the dice on the item drop pool, often walking away with a ton of rare drops from a single map. On top of that, party players only have to invest one person’s cost per map. I’ve played in parties myself, so I know just how unbalanced this mechanic really is. It’s nothing like what you claimed, where party members supposedly only get a 55% loot bonus and six people can barely split it. When all these different drop bonuses stack together, that’s the kind of imbalance we’re dealing with. And then you add the now popular “slave master” playstyle, where one person takes all six players’ drops—at this point, the whole party system has become a completely warped mechanic.

I'm not forgetting those things, those things just aren't what is being suggested to be removed here so I haven't been focusing on them.

It sounds like you're saying the real problem is player rarity, especially with cullers/gravebind. Why are we attacking the party bonus itself when it seems other layers are consistently the root problem as far as I can tell? I'm aware of how the layers of multiplicative bonuses stack yes. It is tricky to correctly correlate quant and rarity, but I would love to see how you calculate it. Every time I try to go that deep it becomes clear I don't have a solid ratio of quant vs rarity effects to rely on. And whatever number I choose or send like targeting player rarity would be much more effective.

Then you mention leeching, which again is interesting, I'm down to close that loophole somehow. I'm just not a fan of applying an equal punishment to evenyone here; why nerf casuals who want to group because a small portion of the player base is using it in a way you feel exploitative? Especially when imo there are much bigger elephants in the room to address like player rarity.

Ultimately I don't care if GGG does this one way or the other. I'm just fascinated by working out the math and comparing the effect on the economy and perceptions of calling behind that each player applies.