LET ME PLAY 0.1 AGAIN!

"

khuzvhan#0406 wrote:

yall can always restrict yourselves by own rules... they dont have to make the game worse for everyone else. loot was bad back then. you wanna fight act 1 in white gear? do it! no one is forcing yall to equip good stuff early on (at any point tbh)

I can't restrict myself into Geonor almost flattening me while I equipped the best things I could find on the ground and in the shop at the time. It's not a matter of just knowing how to dodge, its that the punishment for failing to dodge is no longer as bad and the game is easier in general. Click the video linked in the OP.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

"

Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

Interesting. So when comparing all the games closest to the same playstyle you rank POE2 the best.

Follow up question, what game would you consider to have good combat since you said all of those above do not have it?

EDIT: Since you never played D4 I will save you the trouble, if you think POE2 is braindead, D4 is worse than POE1 by a long ways. Especially if you actually consider everything that goes into a POE1 god build.

There are a lot of games I could give examples of there, but I'll just stick to a few I've played somewhat recently or are otherwise engraved in my mind forever and I know of:

Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
Devil May Cry 4
V Rising

With V Rising being the closest to an ARPG in terms of setup. But the idea here is the general principles behind their combat, so to speak. They obviously can't and won't apply 1 to 1.

I could also give souls type games as an example but, aside from the fact that for a lot of people it will trigger something comparable to an allergic reaction on merely hearing those names, I do think combat can be good without necessarily being the pinnacle of difficulty in terms of mechanical responses, so to speak. Although, pinnacle content should definitely resemble that more.

Regarding the D4 comment at the end there, I do not think PoE2 is braindead, neither do I think PoE1 is braindead. If I ever mention that word in relation to them, I specifically single out the combat part. The ranking I did was also solely in terms of combat, and most of the ones under PoE2 there have very close ratings in my head from that perspective, so even if I put PoE1 last there.. it's really not a huge difference between them. The reason I put it last out of all of them is because it is the only game out of those I know of where there are a significant number of build possibilities that can leave you practically playing afk... and that's as far as you can go from good combat.

PoE1's strengths lie almost entirely on the build creation aspects, imo. It's the only reason I've played it and the only aspect I enjoyed out of it. As soon as I would make a build and it became functional and good enough for it to be clear that it will be able to clear all content, pretty much all joy was lost... because the combat gameplay itself was not exciting in the slightest.

The reason I was incredibly excited for PoE2's arrival, was because I was hoping PoE2 will bring that and add good combat on top too which would've made it the most amazing game ever for me. And that's what they've said they would do as well. And .. well.. sadly... we are where we are now.

Oh and, the reason PoE2 came on top on that list, was because it does indeed have the bones and potential for good combat. And it showed that potential the most in 0.1 first act... but it never really went beyond that.

So to sum it all up, you want a game with very few enemies on the screen and have to full combo, parry, block, dodge roll every single mob. Yea, that just is not POE by any margin. That is more akin to NRFTW and the Souls game. V Rising is the same thing. I understand the type of game you want but that will never be in the POE realm. If it was, it would no longer be POE. Maybe the new Chris Wilson game will be up your alley. Early videos of it look like you run for 20 seconds to fight one mob then repeat.

"

IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

"

Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

Interesting. So when comparing all the games closest to the same playstyle you rank POE2 the best.

Follow up question, what game would you consider to have good combat since you said all of those above do not have it?

EDIT: Since you never played D4 I will save you the trouble, if you think POE2 is braindead, D4 is worse than POE1 by a long ways. Especially if you actually consider everything that goes into a POE1 god build.

There are a lot of games I could give examples of there, but I'll just stick to a few I've played somewhat recently or are otherwise engraved in my mind forever and I know of:

Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
Devil May Cry 4
V Rising

With V Rising being the closest to an ARPG in terms of setup. But the idea here is the general principles behind their combat, so to speak. They obviously can't and won't apply 1 to 1.

I could also give souls type games as an example but, aside from the fact that for a lot of people it will trigger something comparable to an allergic reaction on merely hearing those names, I do think combat can be good without necessarily being the pinnacle of difficulty in terms of mechanical responses, so to speak. Although, pinnacle content should definitely resemble that more.

Regarding the D4 comment at the end there, I do not think PoE2 is braindead, neither do I think PoE1 is braindead. If I ever mention that word in relation to them, I specifically single out the combat part. The ranking I did was also solely in terms of combat, and most of the ones under PoE2 there have very close ratings in my head from that perspective, so even if I put PoE1 last there.. it's really not a huge difference between them. The reason I put it last out of all of them is because it is the only game out of those I know of where there are a significant number of build possibilities that can leave you practically playing afk... and that's as far as you can go from good combat.

PoE1's strengths lie almost entirely on the build creation aspects, imo. It's the only reason I've played it and the only aspect I enjoyed out of it. As soon as I would make a build and it became functional and good enough for it to be clear that it will be able to clear all content, pretty much all joy was lost... because the combat gameplay itself was not exciting in the slightest.

The reason I was incredibly excited for PoE2's arrival, was because I was hoping PoE2 will bring that and add good combat on top too which would've made it the most amazing game ever for me. And that's what they've said they would do as well. And .. well.. sadly... we are where we are now.

Oh and, the reason PoE2 came on top on that list, was because it does indeed have the bones and potential for good combat. And it showed that potential the most in 0.1 first act... but it never really went beyond that.

So to sum it all up, you want a game with very few enemies on the screen and have to full combo, parry, block, dodge roll every single mob. Yea, that just is not POE by any margin. That is more akin to NRFTW and the Souls game. V Rising is the same thing. I understand the type of game you want but that will never be in the POE realm. If it was, it would no longer be POE. Maybe the new Chris Wilson game will be up your alley. Early videos of it look like you run for 20 seconds to fight one mob then repeat.

"

AetherSolace#2274 wrote:

"

khuzvhan#0406 wrote:

yall can always restrict yourselves by own rules... they dont have to make the game worse for everyone else. loot was bad back then. you wanna fight act 1 in white gear? do it! no one is forcing yall to equip good stuff early on (at any point tbh)

I can't restrict myself into Geonor almost flattening me while I equipped the best things I could find on the ground and in the shop at the time. It's not a matter of just knowing how to dodge, its that the punishment for failing to dodge is no longer as bad and the game is easier in general. Click the video linked in the OP.

Have you tried no potions? Starting weapon only on him? Run no armor? I know you have not done all these things. So yes, the restrictions are there to be self imposed.

"

Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

So to sum it all up, you want a game with very few enemies on the screen and have to full combo, parry, block, dodge roll every single mob. Yea, that just is not POE by any margin. That is more akin to NRFTW and the Souls game. V Rising is the same thing. I understand the type of game you want but that will never be in the POE realm. If it was, it would no longer be POE. Maybe the new Chris Wilson game will be up your alley. Early videos of it look like you run for 20 seconds to fight one mob then repeat.

Not exactly. What I expected, as said by the devs themselves, was a combat in which you would have different combat situations you needed to adapt to on the fly where in some cases you would need to combo, parry, dodge and so on, in others you would need to aoe clear a bunch of weaker swarmy enemies and so on.

And, to an extent, you have this in the games I've mentioned too. V Rising definitely has swarms of enemies too. But it does break that up with stronger, more scripted enemies that you need to pay attention to and react accordingly.

Chris Wilson and NRFTW dev had an interesting discussion about breaking up the monotony of doing the same thing constantly, and I think this would be a subcategory of sorts within that idea.

Also, everything I've said here doesn't invalidate the core of PoE in any way. But if you think so, please explain how exactly it invalidates it.

"

Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

Have you tried no potions? Starting weapon only on him? Run no armor? I know you have not done all these things. So yes, the restrictions are there to be self imposed.

Man you are really terrified of having to play a game that isn't won or lost entirely in the gearing window aren't you? You could always just, you know, go play PoE1 if that's the experience you want. It's right there. It still exists. They made 2 a separate game for exactly this reason.

Not every single piece of media has to be flattened down to the lowest common denominator just to placate the insecurities of people that can't be bothered to actually engage with it. The absurdity of you making these "Have you tried *this*?" lists when we're only in this situation to begin with because they massively overcorrected to placate the players who threw a tantrum over 0.1 because it dared to ask them to even try at all.

"

sweetbread21#6814 wrote:

"

Soulsniper1313#7576 wrote:

Have you tried no potions? Starting weapon only on him? Run no armor? I know you have not done all these things. So yes, the restrictions are there to be self imposed.

Man you are really terrified of having to play a game that isn't won or lost entirely in the gearing window aren't you? You could always just, you know, go play PoE1 if that's the experience you want. It's right there. It still exists. They made 2 a separate game for exactly this reason.

Not every single piece of media has to be flattened down to the lowest common denominator just to placate the insecurities of people that can't be bothered to actually engage with it. The absurdity of you making these "Have you tried *this*?" lists when we're only in this situation to begin with because they massively overcorrected to placate the players who threw a tantrum over 0.1 because it dared to ask them to even try at all.

The funny thing is... the dumb things you guys are asking for you CAN self impose right now... but the fact that no one is suffering anymore through the dogshit loot the game used to have kills the vibe for you...

And this kind of argument always end up in the ''go play PoE 1'' stupidity. like... it's literally the same audience... We all received access from GGG (PoE1 players). the games have the same fucking name, it's a successor, not other genre... you guys made that up out of your popos


If you are looking for a game to satisfy an ego issue go play a competitive game or something. this is not the genre you're looking for.

ARPGs are pure power fantasy, you should always be able to obliterate whatever content if your build is competent for that content.

You guys are mad because PoE 2 is not a miserable game anymore and people are having a good time, being a casual, new player or whatever.

+1 for the original post.
I think the zoomification is going to happen whether we like it or not, but I would love a hard mode that has the 0.1 parameters. I enjoyed the drawn out battles.

For every 2 characters I make in standard mode I’d probably make 1 hard mode, to mix it up and feel challenged again

I like this thread. Can I be in both camps?


I want the more challenging game. I also see that mass appeal requires a less challenging game.

Technically the zoom people are correct. PoE 1 proved it. (Well, many casual games before did) People don't want challenge, they want the illusion of it to justify the fact that we're just clicking pixels and wasting our time.

The amatuer developer in me just won't let that fly though. Players should have to engage with mechanics. Victory and success should be earned. If the game isn't enganging in that sense you should just not play it. It's feeding a compulsion rather than being a neat puzzle to solve or challenge to overcome.


But money's a thing, gotta have it to do anything, so we have this compromise. I find it fascinating. Sway me on the artistic vision vs. mass appeal PoE forum. You haven't yet.

Can the vision turn profit?


Personally I'm gonna give em another league with .5. If my old ass can do hitless boss runs with a half assed build, I'm out.

"

khuzvhan#0406 wrote:

The funny thing is... the dumb things you guys are asking for you CAN self impose right now... but the fact that no one is suffering anymore through the dogshit loot the game used to have kills the vibe for you...

lol "suffering". You people are ridiculous. Oh god a video game of all things actually required its audience to learn its mechanics, engage with its systems, and dared to occasionally have the atrocity that is an actual win condition. Thank God your persecution has ended and they've gutted all of those mean mean things that locked success behind having to apply a brain cell every now and then.

"

khuzvhan#0406 wrote:

And this kind of argument always end up in the ''go play PoE 1'' stupidity. like... it's literally the same audience... We all received access from GGG (PoE1 players). the games have the same fucking name, it's a successor, not other genre... you guys made that up out of your popos

They literally separated PoE2 out from PoE1 because it was shaping up to be a much more different experience than they originally intended and they didn't want to overwrite the PoE1 playstyle with it. You already have the game you want in PoE1 for this exact reason. Here are the exact words from Jonathon Rogers:

"We realized that our plan to replace PoE1 with PoE2 would essentially be getting rid of a game that people love for no real reason. So we made a decision: Path of Exile 1 and 2 will be separate, with their own mechanics, balance, endgames, and leagues."

Although I'm sure a direct quotation won't even matter.

"

khuzvhan#0406 wrote:

If you are looking for a game to satisfy an ego issue go play a competitive game or something. this is not the genre you're looking for.

IARPGs are pure power fantasy, you should always be able to obliterate whatever content if your build is competent for that content.

You guys are mad because PoE 2 is not a miserable game anymore and people are having a good time, being a casual, new player or whatever.

I hate to break it to you, but they did it, they managed to break the immutable laws of the universe and make a skill-based IARPG that wasn't composed entirely of crafting gear and then just holding right click while your screen exploded. The entire point of this thread and the dozens of other ones like it is that that game already DID exist. It was 0.1. And boy was it a breath of fresh air for anyone who enjoyed both IARPGS and games with actually interesting gameplay. A real unicorn.

Too bad the dumbest, laziest people on earth are also usually the loudest. You wanna talk about having to "satisfy an ego issue"? You literally already have the game you want to play in PoE1, but that wasn't enough. It wasn't enough for them to intentionally separate the games to preserve that playstyle while also making space for PoE2 to exist as a different thing for different players that wanted a different, more challenging, skill-based game. No, no, EVERYTHING has to be a brain off right click simulator, because otherwise something you didn't automatically win at would exist and you'd be "miserable" and "suffering". EVERYTHING has to just be an unearned empty 24/7 fake "power fantasy", because if there ever was a real one that resulted from accomplishing something or overcoming a challenge then you know you'd probably never experience it. 0.1 needed some tweaking sure, but it was totally manageable for anyone who actually engaged with the unique thing that it was - to see it catastrophically dumbed down just to placate the pathetic egos of the most fragile PoE1 players is beyond frustrating. You literally already have the game that you want, but your ego won't let you just acknowledge that that's your speed and PoE2 wasn't your cup of tea. Nope, we gotta dumb this ---- down to the floor so that you can keep up this narrative that it was wrong and elitist and bad and miserable that's all just a smokescreen to cover up the fact that you were simply just too bad to succeed at it and too lazy to learn how.