0.5 DISAPPOINTMENT

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Argonlo#6237 wrote:

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Vyend#2601 wrote:

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Argonlo#6237 wrote:

Thats not what complexity means. Youre describing bloat which is another problem entirely

Complexity = opposite of simplicity. This is literally what it means.

Which one is simpler? Four runes that each give +2 strength per tier, or a single rune that gives +5 strength?

Not in any meaningful sense. Simply having more elements that do the same thing in varying degrees doesnt contribute to complexity in any way that negatively impacts newer players or increases mental load. Its just visually different.

Actual complexity is having more different elements that interact witch each other. Increasing the number of those elements leads to exponentially more possible interactions, which can be daunting for inexperienced players when they try to identify useful ones.

Are you actually going against the dictionary definition of the word complexity?

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Argonlo#6237 wrote:

"Thats not what complexity means."

It is, like that's literally the objective definition of the word, adding more elements to something makes it less simple, which in turn makes it more complex. This isn't something subjective.

I usually wouldn't care but like, at this point you're essentially "antagonizing others in an obnoxious manner" by quoting me over the most objective thing ever lmao.

This is the kind of stuff that only the poe forum could provide man, like, wow..

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Azimuthus#1135 wrote:

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Citation needed...
A lot of people keep saying this but I havent seen anything to actually support this.

Because you haven't looked for it. It is here and there in different interviews from old ExileCons when POE2 was just revealed. The game was generally advertised as "slow and methodical", with good combat, unlike POE1 or D4, and all old promo vids easily confirmed that. Even closed beta (several months before 0.1.0 release) overall feedback was that the game stands on middle ground between soulslike and arpg. While they could easily make closed beta a POE1-like zoomfest. But they didn't, intentionally. Because that was their "vision" at that time.

But then the train went off the track. Or better to say switched back to old POE1 track. Probably because POE1 people cried too much and GGG said several times they are not happy if POE1 players won't play POE2. So here we are.

Youre making the exact mistake that I described in an earlier post. You saw the old promotional videos (Crossbow and Ranger showcases in oriath for example) whose purpose was to show off those skills, in the campaign, not some grand statement about their vision for gameplay, and assumed that this is what they want gameplay to look like at all levels of progression after you reached endgame.

Same goes for closed beta. That literally only took place in act1, which is such a small slice of the game. Its just completely insufficient information to judge the whole game off of and wrong to assume that as you progress through the game its gonna look and play the same.

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ou saw the old promotional videos (Crossbow and Ranger showcases in oriath for example) whose purpose was to show off those skills, in the campaign, not some grand statement about their vision for gameplay

Read again. I said that those vids just proved what they talking about at those Exilecons. If you have spare time you can browse through and find it. I don't have time to do that as there are dozens of hours of these talks and you need only specific bits of information. But I promise, it is there. Some guy on this forum even "collected" them and put in some topic but again there are dozens of topics on this matter, I won't look them all through just to prove you smth.

I mean, there's the other thread right on top: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3930878

Yes. The plan was for this game to play differently from the first. You can go back and look at the early videos about it, it was said often.

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It is, like that's literally the objective definition of the word, adding more elements to something makes it less simple, which in turn makes it more complex. This isn't something subjective.



I usually wouldn't care but like, at this point you're essentially "antagonizing others in an obnoxious manner" by quoting me over the most objective thing ever lmao.

This is the kind of stuff that only the poe forum could provide man, like, wow..

Im just trying to have a discussion im not antagonizing anyone.

And no, im not going against the "objective" definition of complexity:

"Complexity is the state of having many interconnected parts, components, or variables that interact in nonlinear ways, making a system, situation, or object difficult to understand, predict, or manage."

Having 3 Runes for Stat X at values 1,2,3 doesnt increase the games complexity. Runes 1+2 essentially stop existing by endgame and every player will just use 3.
You could argue that it shouldnt be that way for different reasons but thats a different discussion.

My initial post was asking for a clarification about what OP meant by "POE2 is unnecessarily complex". Your response to that brought up the 3-tiered runes as an example, which was not an appropriate example. I was hoping for examples that show elements of the crafting process (or game in general) that are unnessecary and could be removed without sacrificing depth.

Just go play Diablo then.

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Jagdkommando90#7200 wrote:

I never thought I’d say this, but lately Diablo 4 started to feel more attractive to me than Path of Exile 2.

Not because D4 suddenly became the deeper game. It didn’t.
But because PoE2 keeps stacking more and more systems, currencies, crafting layers, mechanics, league interactions, fragments, omens, passive combinations, and knowledge checks on top of each other every update.

At some point complexity stops being depth and starts becoming exhaustion.

I don’t want to feel like I need a PhD in crafting spreadsheets just to enjoy an ARPG after work.

One of the biggest examples is crafting. Instead of endlessly adding new crafting mechanics every league, why not simplify the foundation? Why not finally add something as straightforward and satisfying as a crafting bench with targeted affixes and meaningful progression?

A lot of players originally criticized Diablo 4 for being too shallow. And that criticism was fair. But now PoE2 risks going too far in the opposite direction:

- too many overlapping mechanics
- too much required external knowledge
- too much reliance on guides
- too much friction to experiment

I’m reaching the point where D4’s slower but clearer progression feels more respectful of my time. I can log in for an evening, make progress, have fun, and log off.

Meanwhile PoE2 increasingly feels like homework before gameplay.

Another thing I genuinely think PoE2 should reconsider: classes and ascendancies.

At this point, why even lock ascendancies behind permanent class choices?

The most exciting evolution for PoE2 would be:

- full character creator
- one base character
- all ascendancies available
- swap ascendancies freely or through progression systems

Let players build identities through gameplay, not through rerolling another character because they picked the “wrong” starting fantasy months ago.

PoE became legendary because of freedom and experimentation. Ironically, modern PoE2 sometimes feels more restrictive than ever because the systems became so bloated that experimentation is punished unless you already know everything.

I still love the game and want it to succeed.
But I really think GGG should ask themselves an important question:

Are we adding meaningful depth… or just adding more layers?

then play d4 , poe 2 is slowly turning into an amazing game .

What I'm taking from this entire thread is the feeling that the game is "not fun" (at least for the OP and others that support this view point).

Now, trying to define the "WHY" is where you can get lost in the quagmire questioning:

- Is it because it's becoming too complex without merit?
- Is it due to bloat?
- Is the direction of combat different than what initially was presented (and implemented in 0.1 patch)?

How do we define complex? What is considered bloat?

In life we should always begin with the end in mind and prioritize putting first things first. These aren't new principles, they are part of the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

Now, how do runes factor into the "begin with the end in mind"? Is there some grand plan that will tie them in and the A-HA moment happens: "THAT'S why runes we're put ahead of swords, or axes, or finishing out implementing the classes...now it makes sense!"

However, at this point, it doesn't make sense (to me at least) as to why runes were such a big portion of the presentation when it comes to "putting first things first". End game was a known and was addressed in substantial fashion. However, there are other parts of the game that people have been asking for where if they didn't deliver runes and offered swords, axes, or another class it would have been resoundingly accepted with universal positive feedback as runes were not on anyone's hit list (at least from what I've seen).

In the end, simple or complex are subsets of what makes a game "fun". Complexity doesn't necessarily equate to "deep" especially when I view runes as just yet another RNG slotgame added to a casino with 300 slot machines. Keep it or take it away, it doesn't affect the casino experience (IMO).

Lastly, I have never played D4 so when I purchased D4: LOH I purchased the entire package, upgraded to ultimate, and added platinum as well. I had my wisdom teeth taken out the week it came out and had a few days off to just play D4 while resting which doesn't happen in my life. Having a blast and even if I spend 40 hours playing this game for ~$150...that's $3.75/hr. for entertainment that I am enjoying. As someone who has 4 figures $$ wise into POE: I don't acknowledge "well go play D4 then" responses especially as POE was inspired by that series.

We either have too much time and not enough money or vice versa in this world, the real question is not if $40 is too much money for a game you potentially could spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing, the question is WHY is $40 too much money for that ROI on entertainment. Anyway, the need to apologize for enjoying a game (especially one that inspired POE) is absurd.

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Heroxsolbadguy#5368 wrote:

i hate to say it diablo 4 good now, they just have straight forward direction & identity now. with path of exile 2 its having identity crisis what it wants to be with fake lame content creators [Removed by Support] that fake weak beta energy should tell you everything wrong with poe 2.

Show me on the dolly what has changed in Diablo 4 to put it on the right path. The base game sucks. Nothing about it was fun. There was no chat to pass the time leveling. The gear is generic. The zone scaling is generic. The armor scaling is generic. The skill trees suck.

Tell me what they fixed about the base game that makes you think it is going to get back the 15m loyal fans it lost.

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AbyssianOne#1625 wrote:

160 new runes no one wanted and new layers of crafting mechanics instead of 20 sword bases.

Never fear, you'll be able to combine these new runes to make Alteration Orbs! Things most people have loot filters set to not even show after a certain point in the game.

Might as well have spent that time adding 150 different design Scroll Fragments.

Haha you are talking end game. The fact they are sticking to gear and level scaling. The druid still is bigger than the road. The world you play on looks like a generic map. The first quest is a cliche cult quest and has nothing to do with the origin of YOUR character. The stats on items mean nothing. The only thing that matters is the wording below that reads like a WoW trinket. D4 sucks to the core and it needs to be burnt to the ground and rebuilt.