Diablo 4 New DLC VS PoE 2 0.5

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Vendetta#0327 wrote:

We didn't pay for dirt...We paid for a marketed game, the problem is that Blizzard is top notch at marketing and movie making, creating hype over the product, while the development and general direction of the product is burning trash...

I mean does the game worth is money ? Definitely not.
Was the game marketed as the top peak of ARPG ? Yes.
Is the game any close to AAA ? Not even close, the only thing that get's an A is the graphics and the fact that in 2026 you put time and effort to develop customizable classes, so you don't need to gender lock classes cuz you do not have development time.

So yea, we didn't pay for dirt, we got an expansion, the problem is that it was burning trash, after 1 year of game life cycle, and it was marketed at AAA level pricing.

I mean. I own and played the game. Like I mentioned it just got worse and worse.

I don't see why anyone would give them more money after the initial game purchase. It was painfully obvious the devs had no clue what they were doing. Even more so than the current PoE2 devs.

It still stands. I can no longer play the game because they want more money when I didn't get what I paid for from the start. Bliz still thinks they're in the WoW days where they can FOMO people into buying expansions. Instead they're just splitting what players they have.

Also I have never and will never pay for a class. I never owned Necro in D3.
I still only own base Grim Dawn for that reason despite them not trying to rob players.

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

It was painfully obvious the devs had no clue what they were doing. Even more so than the current PoE2 devs.

this is finest rage bait. PoE2 devs having no clue? In every interview it is painfully clear that they have alot of genuine ideas and thinking process behind every decision. (maybe they overthink sometimes to much)

Do they always hit the mark(heh)? No
Are they clueless about their game? If you think yes, you are either ignorant, a ragebaiter, delusional, clueless or all a combination.

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Dovolan#6140 wrote:

this is finest rage bait. PoE2 devs having no clue?.

Nah. It's just an opinion. Mine, formed from my own observation.

You hear Johnathan talking in the last half of that Ziz interview right? Oh wait. None of us did.

To be fair I haven't heard mark say anything ridiculous yet. His concept of Ignite being a product of Fire damage will probably never work without band-aids similar to Deflection though.

No good dev goes "Okay we have a level based skill system 1-20. What can players get? +14? Sound fine" That doesn't get shipped. Let alone linger for a year.

When someone asks you why are enemies faster than players and you're response is "So they don't skip them" that should pop a huge red flag in your brain about your game's design.

When you create a stat like Deflection because Evasion doesn't work against some "Attacks" despite them being opposing stats. That's your brain simply not working.

This s a company that's been doing ARPGs for nearly 15 years and they're making rookie mistakes. [Removed by Support] 0% Action Speed on everything in 0.1 was freaking hilarious bad. How could they miss something so simple.

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

You hear Johnathan talking in the last half of that Ziz interview right? Oh wait. None of us did.

So, what I said?

Are you gonna stand there, with a straight face, and tell me that Ziz did a good interview and was not at all aggresive and totally not emotional trying to ragebait the Devs?

If your whole basis is the Ziz interview (where you just skip over 80% of what Jonathan & Marc really said), then we can end the discussion right here.

No point in discussing with someone who borrows others opinion and treats them as rules.

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When you create a stat like Deflection because Evasion doesn't work against some "Attacks" despite them being opposing stats. That's your brain simply not working.

Excuse me. What?
Deflection is meant to be supplementary to evasion, thats why its node are "X of evasion". Deflection builds on evasion. In what world is that opposing? The math aint mathing.

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0% Action Speed on everything in 0.1 was freaking hilarious bad. How could they miss something so simple.

Did you somehow miss the monks and ranger killing everything with ridicoulus speed? Maybe invest in "action speed" like attack and cast speed and dont expect to get everything free without putting points in it.

Where are you getting this "arguments" from? Did you just put some content creators videos in a blender and made an "argument"-smoothie without checking any facts?

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Dovolan#6140 wrote:

So, what I said?No point in discussing with someone who borrows others opinion and treats them as rules.

I literally said I form my own opinion. I don't even watch Ziz but that interview was so popular due to it's outcome I had to. It's about the Dev's logic behind their response. Not the question.

Like I said earlier if you think players will skip enemies in an ARPG you messed something up. You don't make them faster to force interaction. You promote interaction by fixing the design flaw.

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Dovolan#6140 wrote:

Excuse me. What?
Deflection is meant to be supplementary to evasion, thats why its node are "X of evasion". Deflection builds on evasion. In what world is that opposing? The math aint mathing.

I'm not sure you understand the context, esp given you response after this so I'll explain more. Evasion is used against Attacks. Skills tagged as "Attack". It's opposing stat is Accuracy.

That's all that's needed. Melee and Projectiles Attacks are subject to evasion. You don't make some cherry pick rule that Slam Attacks don't count. That results in Deflection for no reason.

The action speed wasn't about player Action Speed. It was about how they forgot why "Reduced" and "Less" are key words. This resulted in being able to reduce all enemies and bosses to 0% Action Speed. In other words they were statues.

But yes. I'm also aware that "Mobility Skills" cover less distance than simply moving... Still.

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

I'm not sure you understand the context, esp given you response after this so I'll explain more. Evasion is used against Attacks. Skills tagged as "Attack". It's opposing stat is Accuracy.

Evasion works on Strikes and projectiles not attacks. Includes spells like fireball.
When (not if) evasion fails, deflect is supposed to soften the blow.
Evasion will fail after X dodges even if you have 100%.
Furthermore you use deflect against stuff that is a Hit --> AoE which you cannot evade.

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

That's all that's needed. Melee and Projectiles Attacks are subject to evasion. You don't make some cherry pick rule that Slam Attacks don't count. That results in Deflection for no reason.

You have a misconception here. Evasion doesnt work against "Attacks". It evades the tags "Strikes" & "Projectiles" in PoE2.
AoE and Slam were never subject to evasion.

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Xzorn#7046 wrote:

The action speed wasn't about player Action Speed. It was about how they forgot why "Reduced" and "Less" are key words. This resulted in being able to reduce all enemies and bosses to 0% Action Speed. In other words they were statues.

But yes. I'm also aware that "Mobility Skills" cover less distance than simply moving... Still.

Where do you get those from?
No matter how much you slow an enemy they cannot be "slowed" or "action reduced" below a threshold (which is 25% of base action and movement I believe). You cannot "freeze" enemy that way. Believe me, I tried with 150% temporal chains... they still moved and attacked cause of the 25% rule...

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Dovolan#6140 wrote:

Evasion works on Strikes and projectiles not attacks.

Evasion in poe2 works versus everything that deals a hit, except red-flash-boss abilities. This was changed few patches ago when they removed acrobatics from passive tree and integraded it to evasion and block.

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Dovolan#6140 wrote:

Evasion works on Strikes and projectiles not attacks. Includes spells like fireball.
When (not if) evasion fails, deflect is supposed to soften the blow.
Evasion will fail after X dodges even if you have 100%.
Furthermore you use deflect against stuff that is a Hit --> AoE which you cannot evade.

Where do you get those from?
No matter how much you slow an enemy they cannot be "slowed" or "action reduced" below a threshold (which is 25% of base action and movement I believe). You cannot "freeze" enemy that way. Believe me, I tried with 150% temporal chains... they still moved and attacked cause of the 25% rule...

Something is wrong here.
I'm not explaining how PoE2 works. I'm explaining how it's either been wrong or is wrong in design.

Armor/Evasion are similar with different pros and cons. They're defensive solutions against attacks.

Dodge/Block are another layer of defense against attacks unless they are active use mechanics. Passive Dodge/Block is a bit redundant because Armor/Evasion already do that job. This is why active dodge/block is a better design. Less stat smashing and more proactive defense.

Resistances are generally for magic and this is where you "should" be able to see the huge flaw with having linear Elemental Resists and non-linear Armor which we could simply call "Physical Resist".

Call Armor "Physical Resist" then line it up with the rest of your Resists stats and see if you can tell me what's wrong with that design. GGG insists on following Diablo 2's flawed designs for some reason. Diablo 1 didn't work like this. It used AC which was DR and Evasion together.

Even D4 got it right when it comes to resists being non-linear.

Rookie Mistake: -138% Action Speed. https://youtu.be/yjNxlN1WrPw?si=jhIMovflFNH3YqKo
Maybe you don't notice these terrible designs... But it's not rage bait.

Oh totally forgot the change. The ingame tool is still with "strike" & "projectiles" but they changed it to Hit instead. You are right.

Lets go and list the Type of defence and resistence and why I think its good design. Mind you, I am not a fan of braindead mechanics that you get for free and never invest or think about it.

Resistance:
Reduces the damage type no matter the source. Linear. Easy to understand, is not naturally on items except rings. Too many resistances bloat the system + item-suffixes (like in last epoch). 4 is fine

Defences:
Unlike Resistance, Defences are specific in what they reduce and are always on items for body slots (helmet, torso and so on). As you get them for "free" there has to be some sort of involvement/downside or else you can leave them out for some kind of resistance.

Defences Type:

Armour reduces damage everytime a physical Hit occurs. Thats important and why its not a physical resistance. Bleed and blood pools are not hits. This gives physical DoT builds a positive right to exist. Also the armour stacker have a clear weakness

New evasion has a chance to cancel hits if the source wasnt a boss red attack. Really strong but it scales less and it is a gamble in the end. Evade everything would be too strong if you have it from the get go. There is an inbuilt timer that guarantees a hit, so less of a gamble and more you evade X/10 hits. So you need to build around that (Like armour has to think about non phys hit).

Energy is just fake hp. There is no damage reduction or evasion. They need to tweek the numbers but its just simple. Fake hp that need a non-damage period to regenerate. Bleed, Poison and Chaos are its weakness (until it isnt). The only problem with this mechannic atm is the amount of effective HP.

Suplementary defences:
This only work together with the defences. Armour has elemental damage hits, evasion has deflect for that hit that will come, energy has faster regen periods.

I dont see a flawed design with those as they work in tandem and complete the defence type.

You need to invest in those to get the benefits. They clearly need to tweek the numbers.


Physical damage is the most occuring damage, having a resistance type physical + defences would make physical the worst damage type, especially DoT damage. Its important that there is room for non-hit-physical damage.


The video you posted shows a bug and not intented design. Monsters generally cannot be slowed below 25% of their base speed (meaning a maximum 75% total slow). The bug exceeding the limit was known already and I thought fixed as my 150% Temporal chain doesnt stop enemies even if I add chill and play solo.

Bugs should not be a basis for design discussions.

I also cannot fathom how you can praise D4 resistances but criticize PoEs... I played D4 only the first year and I remember that armour and resistances were just bad and hard to read (they were multiplicative). Dont know if they changed that.
If they did you are praising a full released game with addons (150+ €) that had to change a lot of systems AFTER release that clearly didnt work while badmouthing a early access title which is meant to test systems before release... thats not ragebait you are right... its double standards.

I was really amazed, i buyed the expansion yesterday, and i really had fun, i didn t had this in a Diablo game since diablo 3.. So most of the people here should really try it before speaking. Now i play both, poe and diablo.