​[Feedback] Address Defensive Disparity: Proposed ES Nerfs for 0.5.0

playing ssf ES lich with 9k and 1.3s recharge delay and i feel adequately rewarded for grinding and crafting to get there. with 7k the build still felt kinda dubious - had to scrutinize every 6-mod waystone for too much added damage, else i shouldn't add certain content tablets for breach might be too hard etc. i still die sometimes to chaos crits and can't ignore special boss attacks.

i don't know how much stronger CI is, but i don't think the real problem is the max ES (i imagine nerfing those nodes would cripple builds that aren't overpowered right now), it's that the tools to ignore damage over time are too good. there's only a handful of corrupting blood skills that hinder the ability to recharge and some abyss nonsense. maybe CI should be somehow vulnerable to ignites more

last league i played eva+es with something silly like 2k life 1.5k es 8k evasion that was virtually immortal due to the ghost thing, that was actually broken and got rightfully nerfed. i don't really feel the same about lich with ES recharge

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aman_eu#0664 wrote:

playing ssf ES lich with 9k and 1.3s recharge delay and i feel adequately rewarded for grinding and crafting to get there. with 7k the build still felt kinda dubious - had to scrutinize every 6-mod waystone for too much added damage, else i shouldn't add certain content tablets for breach might be too hard etc. i still die sometimes to chaos crits and can't ignore special boss attacks.

i don't know how much stronger CI is, but i don't think the real problem is the max ES (i imagine nerfing those nodes would cripple builds that aren't overpowered right now), it's that the tools to ignore damage over time are too good. there's only a handful of corrupting blood skills that hinder the ability to recharge and some abyss nonsense. maybe CI should be somehow vulnerable to ignites more

last league i played eva+es with something silly like 2k life 1.5k es 8k evasion that was virtually immortal due to the ghost thing, that was actually broken and got rightfully nerfed. i don't really feel the same about lich with ES recharge

for me ~10k ES feels pretty solid. the difference between armor/ev players and ES is that we can get 10k ES while we're playing via passives (with triple t3 ES prefix rares) and that's not the same for armor/evasion since they lack passive scaling (in comparison). So while ES players can spec OUT of nodes as they upgrade in favor of damage is why ES is "so good and should be nerfed". In actuality, armor/EV either needs a flat buff to compensate (i.e. on their bases) or a slight boost in the passive tree.

Honestly, going ES just smooths out the unbalanced experience that game currently has. it's either go stupid damage, or try to play armor/ev and suffer cause it doesn't scale properly with the game's progression, or go ES and choose if you want more ES via passive, or more damage via passive which goes hand in hand with how said ES player goes about upgrading their gear.

Its really telling when people havent got a single armour character outside of the campaign. And maybe not even that. And talk about how good or bad it is.


I feel like nearly everyone who talks about armour in this thread save for me, and maybe one other. Has not actually made an armour based character to any sort of level.


One guy made a pathfinder and has two hybrid pieces of gear and came to the conclusion that "armour is bad" is about the only level of evidence I have actually seen. And ended up with an entire passive tree worth of defense nodes, landing on a whopping 3.5k armour.




Which is hilarious if this is the level of experimentation and investigation to figure out how good or bad armour is. And it just further supports my claim about constant "build issues" on the forums.

Like legit this player is trying to scale an entire defense, with no base items, a class that doesnt even start in the armour section, and cant even get more than my Sorc hybrid has.


And they say armour is just bad. They simply just dont know how to play the game, and instead of learning anything, they want the game to change for them about a subject they have 0 knowledge on.



Id love to be proven wrong by anyone who thinks armour is just "not-viable", or incapable to any degree. But so far no-one has provided a single shred of evidence to support their claim.


And has me along with thousands of other characters that prove them otherwise.

In addition to the simple "X% Increased" nodes, the passive tree lets Energy Shield:
begin its recharge faster
recharge at an increased rate
contribute to ailment threshold
contribute to stun theshhold
Replace Life as a new base stat for stun threshold
Convert Life into ES


In comparison, the supplimental nodes for Armour/Evasion:
Allow the LOWEST of Armour+Evasion from equipment to contribute to ailemnt/stun threshhold(if one is 0, you get NOTHING)
permit a % of Armour to contribute to elemental mitigation
"Defend with X% Armour" - all of which have restrictive conditions to be active
Grant deflection from Evasion rating
Bleed or Poison Immunuty depending on the armour/Evasion values on your helm



The passive tree's support for the core defenses needs expanding.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Like legit this player is trying to scale an entire defense, with no base items, a class that doesnt even start in the armour section,

You linked a Pathfinder. They start in every section.

I like how the post ignored everything. Including what I actually said as well.



Not helping anyones case here LeFlesh

Again:You linked a Pathfinder.

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LeFlesh#9979 wrote:

Again:You linked a Pathfinder.

Make sure you read the post


That you go out of your way to ignore, and then bold as well.


Not helping anyones case on why "armour is bad" LeFlesh, actually hurting their claims as you are ....


Not reading what was said


Highlights the smallest portion of my post, bolds class right there, and then starts talking about pathfinder.


Cant make this up

They play a toon that starts in every section. By all means keep kicking yourself in the mouth. I won't stop you.

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Mashgesture#2912 wrote:

Its really telling when people havent got a single armour character outside of the campaign. And maybe not even that. And talk about how good or bad it is.

I tried, really tried, to make an armor based ice wolf druid build from scratch self-found, but it was the most miserable experience I ever had. Even when gunning for a lot of armor nodes on the druid side of the tree, what little armor I found did nothing to save me from taking tons of damage, and my push for armor passives meant my DPS is absolutely tanked.

And don't get me started on difficulty getting the attributes needed to wear said armor on top of other attributes for ice wolf gems.

I realized that if I'm struggling with getting armor to work in campaign, then playing through maps is going to be an absolute nightmare. So I gave up and went back to my tested and proven ED lich.

I don't need to smash my face against a brick wall to know that doing so would hurt. I don't need to die a lot on the road to T15 maps to know that my armor-based druid is going to get his ass kicked a lot, because of how bad armor is.