.5 Chrono discussion

Certainly Frostbolts boosted by both Hourglass and repeated by Now and Again sound rather good..

And if Choir can both Echo and Repeat, oh boy.

E: On second thought, I have to wonder if that first line on Now and Again is a typo, and it is instead meant to, you know, *cascade* Cascadeable spells. Echoing Cascadeable spells doesn't seem to make as much sense? And Echoing and Repeating spells is basically the same thing for spells that can Echo, though maybe that is the intention. For now, I will be taking the node as written, though I should very much like to see the definition of 'Cascadeable' and 'Repeatable' outside of the context of support gems.

Nah, Repeat is a separate mechanic; spamming frostbolts has nothing to do with repeat.

There are 3 sources of repeat atm: Spell echo (i'm sure Comet in GGG demo has spell echo support), barrage for bows, and unleash skill for spells (roaring staff, clearly states repeat).

I don't believe they mean any skills that can be supported by Cascade/Echo w/o linking gems and not already supported/empowered for repeat.

Even if yes, there are about 30 spells in total that can be supported by cascade/echo (and actually have Cascadable type), and with Unleash Staff Skill, you can repeat anything but channeling/CD.

Cascadable cold spells are Nova/Bomb/Wall/Comet/Snap.
And they can also be supported by echo, ofc. Almost the entire Cold Chrono kit, but Frostbolt/Darts.

They really want to make the Chronomancer self-cast Comets.

Anyway, clarification is required. I hope I'm wrong here.
If a repeatable type is just any non-CD/Channelling, and it doesn't require Unleash skill to repeat to trigger Now and Again, well, ok then.

don't think I'm gonna touch Chrono next league. it was already painful to play in 0.4
This Ascendancy feels weird in the game that is about pure blasting with less downtime possible.

Well everything looks OKAY and nothing more
The new Inevitable Agony looks powerful to be honest
at least it's always doing sth,and the number 50% is quite big
goodbye to our Rift and hello to our Snap =|


The rapid river is not that powerful even for heavy-recoup builds.Recoup builds are all volnerable to one big damage and happy to take multiple little damages.And The Rapid River cant help with it.So it's not that painful to lose it I believe.

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monik390#5560 wrote:

Dropping by real quick.

Removing recoup is big nerf, since it's removing an alternative setup for CoC instead of regular life leech.

Although I wasn't playing recoup much last time I played Chrono, I have to admit it was a surprisingly decent tech.

I don't know how good the recoup is on a passive tree in 0.5, but we always were passive point hungry.

The phased form is big. One of the best defensive nodes in existence. Paired with the new Temporal Rift, it's huge af.

Honestly, I didn't feel good about Now and Again after CD nerfs on Frost Wall/Bomb, so I dropped it back then.

And I do think the new node is quite powerful and totally worth replacing random CD reset, since GGG failed to make a decent CD archetype on a fundamental lvl.

In PoE1, repeat was a multistrike/spell echo mechanic, so i'm sure ggg will change wording for it. Basically, everything cascadable can echo and repeat.
So yeah, we are locked to Cold element again for most benefits.

I've got some Ritual Cadence bomber idea here, but, honestly, i just lost my faith in Chrono after Varashta release. Literally no reason to choose Chrono over it for anything but memes. Varashta is damn good, be it caster or summoner.

Anyway, i'm not up to playing caster again, so yeah. Dropping out.

Edit: triggered spells cannot be supported by Spell Echo.
If new Now and Again can bypass this limitation, I can expect Choir of Storm CoC Chronomancers to be really strong.
If not... well, whatever. The endgame is not a place for self-casting Comets.

Phased form paired with Recoup or perhaps evade should be insane.

I'm not sure if the Temp rift addition will be worth it. maybe.

Recoup will pair with it incredibly well. they show 2 additions for "increased recoup effect."
20% increased speed of recoup effects over in templar. "left ventricle" seems to be in the Heart tissue tree. I took that in my recoup/plant chrono in .4
and a whole node tree in tree mid, where Reformed Barrier used to be. so either merged into that, or Reformed Barrier was moved.


and yeah, as we've noted.. point starved already. and these new additions were NOT to existing recoup nodes.

ES with phased form. the delayed damage will likely interfere with ES regen. so not ideal.
Convalescence skill and timesnap however is great.



as for Now and again. yeah, just not sure.
as noted. Repeat is used for Barrage, and attacks.
https://poe2db.tw/us/Repeating_Skills#RepeatRef

so this is a bit confusing.

spell echo says, "effects happen again". spells Echo. does not say repeat or reoccur..
https://poe2db.tw/us/Spell_Echo

Unleash support says, Reoccur. Capital R.
https://poe2db.tw/us/Unleash

Monik is right, unleash STAFF does say repeat. no capital though..
https://poe2db.tw/us/Unleash#UnleashSkillGemStaffUnleash

So, this might mean, the 20% repeat is ANY spell, without a CD, or channeling.

The good is that does make it more widely useful. the Cascade/echo is pretty narrow really.

Echoing Pulse passive says, "final REPEAT of spells have 30% increased aoe"
https://poe2db.tw/us/Echoing_Pulse#area_spells26
I feel like I tested this in the old thread, to try and find out what counted. but don't remember my results. iirc, unleash didnt count?



people are still over estimating its power. even 20% repeat, is not 20% more damage. since, its not repeating coc, or another echos, etc.
like if you cast Frost nova, with spell echo in it. 1 cast, +1 echo. 200% damage. and lets say it 20% chance of repeats. repeats. +1 repeat. 3 casts, not 4. so that would be 10% more damage.


still its "free" damage.

this all would be great for my .4 plant chrono. Entangle then CAN repeat. If i get +1 limit on thrashing vines that can echo and repeat.

Yeah, Echoing Pulse was about everything supported by Spell Echo back then, but if I recall right, no one tested it with Unleash skill.

Unleash support definitely won't work for anything if GGG follows PoE1 logic here. They separated seals and repeating.

About its power creep, people are praying on overlapping cascades AND repeating. However, if I recall right, cascade+echo doesn't summon twice as many cascaded spells; it adds just one. I definitely tested it back then and wasn't pleased with the results.

I'm not sure if things are still working that way, or might be fixed in 0.5.

But, honestly, after some deep thinking, it doesn't seem to be that good unless Now and Again can bypass spell echo limitations (at least on triggers) and doesn't require use or fitting repeating mechanics into spells.

Anyway, let's wait and see the patch notes. Just don't have high hopes for it.

patch notes!

Chrono specific:

"

Chronomancer

The Rapid River Notable Passive Skill has been removed, its position has been taken by Now and Again.

The Now and Again Notable Passive Skill has been reworked, It now grants Cascadable Spells have a 20% chance to Echo, and Repeatable Spells have a 20% chance to Repeat.

The Unbound Encore Notable Passive Skill has taken the previous position of Now and Again.

The Ultimate Command Notable Passive Skill now requires Unbound Encore.
Added the new Phased Form Notable Passive Skill, preceding Footprints in the Sand. Phased Form grants take 30% less Damage, and 4 seconds after being Damaged by an Enemy Hit, take Damage equal to 30% of that Hit's Damage.

The Temporal Rift Skill granted by the Footprints in the Sand Notable Passive Skill has been updated. It now has a cast time of 0.1 seconds (previously 0.5), and now also removes delayed damage from Phased Form.

The Inevitable Agony Skill granted by the Inevitability Notable Passive Skill has been reworked. It is no longer a Curse, and has a 2 second Cooldown. The Debuff is now a Life Loss effect instead of secondary hit damage, and the Debuff amount is now displayed on static health bars. The Debuff also now instantly Culls enemies when total Life Loss reaches Culling Strike Threshold. Now grants Debuffed targets lose life equal to 25% of Hit Damage dealt to them while Debuffed (previously 50%). Enemy Curse Effectiveness no longer applies to this Skill, meaning Unique Enemies have the same effectiveness as previously, while other Enemies have less. Debuff duration is now 12 seconds (previously 6-8.6 seconds). Quality now grants +0-0.5 Metres to initial cast radius (previously Curse zone erupts after 0-10% reduced delay). The Skill has also received new visual effects.

The Sands of Time Buff granted by the Quicksand Hourglass Notable Passive Skill now grants 1-60% increased Skill Speed (previously Cast Speed), and has also has new visual effects.

Sands of time is SKILL SPEED. wow. thats very interesting. especially after complaining about chrono being made more pure caster.
but Pounce, mace, and shapeshifting nice. Maybe even bow/grenades again.

IA is NO LONGER A CURSE. did they say that in the vid? I missed that part..
and they are specifically calling it CULL here. so may interact with Cull supports?
life loss, not a hit. interesting.. not a curse removes tons of potential synergies and buffs though..
I almost feel this is worse.


some highlights I noticed from general notes:

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Storm charged/breaking point no longer links to the jewe

l. rough. very popular elemental path.

lol.

"

The Echoing Pulse Notable Passive Skill now grants Echoed Spells have 25% increased Area of Effect. It no longer grants Final Repeat of Spells has 30% increased Area of Effect, which did not function.

Small nerf to comet.

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Comet: Now deals 212 to 318 Cold Damage at Gem level 11 (previously 223 to 335), scaling up to 787 to 1181 damage at Gem level 20 (previously 829 to 1243). Fire-Infused Comet now deals 212 to 318 Fire and Cold Damage at Gem level 11 (previously 279 to 418), scaling to 787 to 1181 Fire and Cold Damage at Gem level 20 (previously 1036 to 1554).

yeah, looks like Unleash clarified.

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Unleash, Expand, Salvo, and Freezing Salvo Supports all now use the same concept of Seals, instead of each having their own version. This means standardised rules for Seals that will be consistent for all cases, resulting in some behaviour changes. Supports granting Seals now consistently all have the Seal category.

makes sense.. it was kind of busted.

"

Shock Conduction II: Can no longer be obtained.

No changes to plants, or accel growth. surprising.


lame.

"

Greater and Perfect currencies have been made somewhat rarer, with Transmutation and Augmentation being made significantly rarer.

Armor, EVa, and ES have been increased around level 65 for early mapping, and reduced to more equal values by level 80. interesting.

Many Runes buffed pretty significantly. some nerfed.

Cast on Crit. untouched.

"

The Debuff also now instantly Culls enemies when total Life Loss reaches Culling Strike Threshold.

I wonder if two specific notable going to work here?

Hunting Companion
20% increased Culling Strike Threshold
Culling Strike against Beasts while your Companion is in your Presence

Bounty Hunter
Recover 1% of maximum Life on Kill
Recover 1% of maximum Mana on Kill
25% increased Culling Strike Threshold

Cull the Hordes
40% increased Culling Strike Threshold against Rare or Unique Enemies

The one thing tho, those notables are impossible to reach. You either go Megalo
or amy instil it. :shrugs:

Definitely should work. It's a tradeoff for losing scaling with the curse effect.

Another question is, how reasonable is it to start with a caster after those nerfs, while decent attack builds are almost untouched?

I might make a Chrono twink to tap the changes, but starting with it doesn't seem good, unless, once again, Now and Again bypasses Echo limitations.

I am thinking what to do. My Amazon Lightning Spear is mostly giga online in 0.5, even with the es recharge nerfs (which I never scale on that build), +skill level and leech nerfs. But it will require and DAMN TON of time and currency to reach levels of power that I got in this league.
If that damn Twisters not gonna be nerfed it will be much harder to buy Spears in 0.5 I dunno.

Leaguestarting Sorc on other hand is just straight PAIN.