Is PoE2 even PoE?

Funny backpedaling, don't worry, I digested pretty well.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

[...]has NEVER (ill repeat, never)[...]

Too bad, it appears it was not never, despite you "repeating" it, caps, and underligned.

I admire the effort trying to turn it around ! Professional mental gymnast at work.

CW : "same game"
cow : well, actually, that's not what he meant

Yeah, I'm sure you know better than him what he meant, amusing.

For the love of god......please READ what I wrote and what you quoted twice now.

I'll quote myself because you apparently didn't read it yet:
"PoE 2 has NEVER...billed itself as a copy/paste of PoE 1"

A copy/paste. Nothing to do with whether it was within the "same game" or not.

Context.....



From the very beginning, IN THE SAME INTERVIEW with CW that YOU quoted and brought into this argument (not me), he states all the things that needed to change. Namely....everything that PoE 2 ended up becoming. You didn't bother reading what I wrote, even given two chances and TWO times you quoted me....nor did you even bother reading or understanding the things you decided to quote against me.
And then almost immediately after the interview or reveal (might have even been before or around the same time, or even within the interview), we received gameplay footage of prototype "PoE 2 / PoE 4.0" that literally LOOKED like a different game. From the very beginning.

ExileCon 2019 PoE 2 gameplay: https://youtu.be/KHA3cYpkMYA
Listen to how they describe that game and just freaking WATCH the gameplay. And that's BEFORE they update the tech, this is just them jerry-rigging PoE 1 to "work" with their PoE 2 new-age vision so that they can show gameplay. You can find the Jonathan Gameplay Reveal video and he goes into even more detail about their desire to SLOW everything down and change how the game works on a fundamental level.

I'll say it again because its important: context...from 2019 in the FIRST LOOK, they don't want it to be PoE 1. Slower gameplay, layered skills, tactical play, less aura power, far more strategic beefy and dangerous bosses....its all there right in 2019.

The REAL initial plan, described by CW himself in 2019 along with other staffers, was to CHANGE PoE 1 over the next years to become more in line with what they wanted BEFORE the release of the second campaign, PoE 4.0, and the new systems. It was NOT the other way around...fitting the new campaign into the EXISTING PoE structure. They ultimately decided to split off because of two things: the infrastructure did not allow them to create everything they wanted to implement AND they decided NOT to change PoE 1 in order to make it a "shared endgame" that didn't resemble the PoE 1 that everyone was currently playing. Because that would have been MORE disastrous in the long term for them.

These are not MY words, or MY descriptions: this is literally all they talked about from 2019 until winter 2024 with the release of the EA. But apparently the ONLY thing you and others heard was: Two campaigns, same endgame. And then you checked out.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The REAL initial plan, described by CW himself in 2019 along with other staffers, was to CHANGE PoE 1 over the next years to become more in line with what they wanted BEFORE the release of the second campaign, PoE 4.0, and the new systems. It was NOT the other way around...fitting the new campaign into the EXISTING PoE structure. They ultimately decided to split off because of two things: the infrastructure did not allow them to create everything they wanted to implement AND they decided NOT to change PoE 1 in order to make it a "shared endgame" that didn't resemble the PoE 1 that everyone was currently playing. Because that would have been MORE disastrous in the long term for them.

They originally wanted PoE2 a direct upgrade / continutation for PoE1 - same endgame 2 campaigns stuff.

But while developing PoE2 they went too hard on "meaningful combat" that is so deviated from PoE1.

So in 3.15 and onward, they made "ballistic" changes to PoE1 in player power, monster power, loot to get PoE1 be inline with PoE2 when they inevitably merge.

But surprise surprise, the changes were so unpopular, the community outrage were too great they had to revert most of the changes.

PoE1 and PoE2 now again, deviates too far from eachother to be the same game.

Somewhere after those years, GGG went screw it and make PoE2 a stand-alone game.

Fact is, PoE2 vision and "meaningful combat" did not work on PoE1 and had push back so great that they have to essentially fork PoE2 into it's own game.

As a PoE1 passionate gamer, I refuse to recognize PoE2 as a "Path of Exile" game. If you insist on "meaningful combat" and Dark Souls Rollslop, you can keep your game, but have the dignity to call it another name.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

So in 3.15 and onward, they made "ballistic" changes to PoE1 in player power, monster power, loot to get PoE1 be inline with PoE2 when they inevitably merge.

If you had taken the time to read the manifesto for that patch back then, you would already know why those changes were introduced at the time. They were far from the sweeping upheaval you are trying to paint them as today, and the context from that period makes that perfectly evident.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

PoE1 and PoE2 now again, deviates too far from eachother to be the same game.

Yes, naturally, because the two games are not even attempting to be identical. If they were meant to mirror each other, there would be no reason for both to exist as separate titles. A truly astonishing revelation, I know.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

As a PoE1 passionate gamer, I refuse to recognize PoE2 as a "Path of Exile" game. If you insist on "meaningful combat" and Dark Souls Rollslop, you can keep your game, but have the dignity to call it another name.

I do not believe anyone needs to be a self described passionate PoE1 gamer to understand the difference between two distinct games, nor to recognise that a sequel is never meant to be a simple recreation of its predecessor. It is also worth remembering that even PoE1’s own patch history often required proper context to appreciate the reasoning behind certain changes, so a bit of uncertainty surrounding new directions is nothing unusual in a long running title.

The confusion here seems to come from treating meaningful combat and expressive movement abilities as if they automatically define a soulslike experience, even though PoE2 is nowhere near that category and has never attempted to be. And since PoE2 continues the story years after the events of the first game, calling it anything other than Path of Exile 2 would be inaccurate. A sequel carrying forward its own identity is not a lack of dignity, it is simply correct naming.

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VoidWhisperer42#5989 wrote:

"

nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

So in 3.15 and onward, they made "ballistic" changes to PoE1 in player power, monster power, loot to get PoE1 be inline with PoE2 when they inevitably merge.

If you had taken the time to read the manifesto for that patch back then, you would already know why those changes were introduced at the time. They were far from the sweeping upheaval you are trying to paint them as today, and the context from that period makes that perfectly evident.

"

nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

PoE1 and PoE2 now again, deviates too far from eachother to be the same game.

Yes, naturally, because the two games are not even attempting to be identical. If they were meant to mirror each other, there would be no reason for both to exist as separate titles. A truly astonishing revelation, I know.

"

nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

As a PoE1 passionate gamer, I refuse to recognize PoE2 as a "Path of Exile" game. If you insist on "meaningful combat" and Dark Souls Rollslop, you can keep your game, but have the dignity to call it another name.

I do not believe anyone needs to be a self described passionate PoE1 gamer to understand the difference between two distinct games, nor to recognise that a sequel is never meant to be a simple recreation of its predecessor. It is also worth remembering that even PoE1’s own patch history often required proper context to appreciate the reasoning behind certain changes, so a bit of uncertainty surrounding new directions is nothing unusual in a long running title.

The confusion here seems to come from treating meaningful combat and expressive movement abilities as if they automatically define a soulslike experience, even though PoE2 is nowhere near that category and has never attempted to be. And since PoE2 continues the story years after the events of the first game, calling it anything other than Path of Exile 2 would be inaccurate. A sequel carrying forward its own identity is not a lack of dignity, it is simply correct naming.

Nice word-smithing.

But no substance. No facts presented. No real argument.

Oh my, you are definitely one to raise that point. *facepalm*

Should have named the game Path of Slogger instead lul

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AlvinL_#4492 wrote:

Oh my, you are definitely one to raise that point. *facepalm*

When your opponent makes a mistake, don't stop them. :D

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

But no substance. No facts presented. No real argument.

The facts have already been presented and the core claims have long been debunked, leaving no room for further argument. Since it all stems from nothing but confusion, what remains is only passive dislike and misunderstanding. You continue to confuse how a sequel works, misinterpret basic game mechanics, and mistake PoE2 for a soulslike, even though the two are fundamentally different in every respect. Some even seem to think that PoE1 was changed to fit PoE2, despite the developers creating two distinct titles designed to offer different experiences. After all, the whole point of a sequel is to deliver something fresh, not to copy and paste the original. Perhaps it is time to let go of this misconception and the lingering dislike toward the game. After all, the game’s existence, even if you do not care for it, changes nothing for you.

Many of you already know this (and might have possibly mentioned it, I didn't read all comments here), but for those that don't, I thought that a look back at where it all started might be beneficial to this discussion.

Almost 13 years ago (January 2013), 0.10.0, the open beta for PoE 1 was released. If you look at some of the gameplay footage from back then (random example from ZiggyD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuq_JlGYUA), you will notice that the game played quite a bit differently compared to modern PoE. It almost looks like "meaningful combat" - players dealt less damage and had less aoe, even some of the white mobs were hard to one shot. If the graphics weren't this outdated, you might actually think that this was footage from PoE 2's campaign.

Every time I play through the campaign of PoE 2, I can't help but be reminded of PoE 1's early days. It's a bit unfortunate that PoE 2 tried to ramp up it's endgame to PoE 1 levels so early in it's dev cycle - we all got so used to blasting through the campaign and most of the endgame in PoE 1 that GGG probably felt the need to scale PoE 2's endgame to comparable levels from the get go.

I hope that the changes to pack size in endgame for 0.4 and whatever is in store for 0.5 in April will help to properly define PoE 2's endgame identity.

Be patient with the game, there is no reason to get angry at the devs or other players who might prefer other playstyles than your own. Look at PoE 1, where it came from and how it got to where it is now and allow PoE 2 to take it's own journey, it's far from done!