Is PoE2 even PoE?

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eperon#3129 wrote:

Many of you already know this (and might have possibly mentioned it, I didn't read all comments here), but for those that don't, I thought that a look back at where it all started might be beneficial to this discussion.

Almost 13 years ago (January 2013), 0.10.0, the open beta for PoE 1 was released. If you look at some of the gameplay footage from back then (random example from ZiggyD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuq_JlGYUA), you will notice that the game played quite a bit differently compared to modern PoE. It almost looks like "meaningful combat" - players dealt less damage and had less aoe, even some of the white mobs were hard to one shot. If the graphics weren't this outdated, you might actually think that this was footage from PoE 2's campaign.

Every time I play through the campaign of PoE 2, I can't help but be reminded of PoE 1's early days. It's a bit unfortunate that PoE 2 tried to ramp up it's endgame to PoE 1 levels so early in it's dev cycle - we all got so used to blasting through the campaign and most of the endgame in PoE 1 that GGG probably felt the need to scale PoE 2's endgame to comparable levels from the get go.

I hope that the changes to pack size in endgame for 0.4 and whatever is in store for 0.5 in April will help to properly define PoE 2's endgame identity.

Be patient with the game, there is no reason to get angry at the devs or other players who might prefer other playstyles than your own. Look at PoE 1, where it came from and how it got to where it is now and allow PoE 2 to take it's own journey, it's far from done!

Yep ... I wrote exactly this about 6 pages ago lol

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Yep ... I wrote exactly this about 6 pages ago lol

Sorry mate, I just skimmed through the thread and felt that it might be helpful to put things in perspective...didn't mean to copy your post XD

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

For the love of god......please READ what I wrote and what you quoted twice now

I do read, and that's why I quote you, then someone from GGG. There is no opinion at all from me here, I'm not arguing, I'm just presenting your fact and confront it with the real facts.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

ExileCon 2019 PoE 2 gameplay: https://youtu.be/KHA3cYpkMYA
Listen to how they describe that game and just freaking WATCH the gameplay. And that's BEFORE they update the tech, this is just them jerry-rigging PoE 1 to "work" with their PoE 2 new-age vision so that they can show gameplay. You can find the Jonathan Gameplay Reveal video and he goes into even more detail about their desire to SLOW everything down and change how the game works on a fundamental level.

Way too funny. You talk so much about context, did you miss the context being this is a level 11 zone ? Are you faster in PoE1 in a level 11 zone ?
You talk about finding Jonathan Gameplay reveal video. Do you even realize your link IS Jonathan playing and Chris commenting ?

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

I'll say it again because its important: context...from 2019 in the FIRST LOOK, they don't want it to be PoE 1. Slower gameplay, layered skills, tactical play, less aura power, far more strategic beefy and dangerous bosses....its all there right in 2019.

You are free to think that. But that's your interpretation, from a lvl 11 early gameplay (speed, layered skills, aura power at level 11 ?)

Listen, because I think you got me wrong. I'm not trying to argue with you regarding what PoE2 was, is, will be. I'm catching you on your hyperboles, that end up just being wrong.
You cannot say that PoE2 was ALLWAYS meant to be a different game (see what I did here ? that's why I started replying to you) because it's just not true. Even GGG didn't clearly know initially (and arguably still don't know now lol).

It's not about wanting PoE1 to be PoE2 or the opposite. It's not about wanting a different game.
The plan, from CW 2019
A live game needs increments, so you always reach a point where the speed gets out of control. They don't want PoE2 to be slow intrinsically.
They NEED it to start slow, to give room for future content. That's it. And a lot of people talking so much about how slow PoE2 is better are in for a bad surprise overtime for that reason. It's only a matter of when, not if.

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eperon#3129 wrote:

Almost 13 years ago (January 2013), 0.10.0, the open beta for PoE 1 was released. If you look at some of the gameplay footage from back then (random example from ZiggyD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuq_JlGYUA), you will notice that the game played quite a bit differently compared to modern PoE. It almost looks like "meaningful combat" - players dealt less damage and had less aoe, even some of the white mobs were hard to one shot. If the graphics weren't this outdated, you might actually think that this was footage from PoE 2's campaign.

That is leaving out some key factors. PoE back then wasn't popular at all, due to how slow it was. It was being talked about as a new upcoming ARPG, but Diablo 3 was still in full swing. I remember the game being briefly covered by a German YouTube channel I've been following for more than a decade now, which is what initially got me to try the game as a Sweep (?) Marauder back in April 2013. After some time, I went back to D3 and came back later. The general public's interest in the game waned quickly, though.

PoE's gameplay changed rather drastically then, with 2014's Torment league's meta being reverse Knockback Cyclone, vacuuming the entire map to kill touched mobs at the end for big loot. I even tried this myself. I also recall the early days of Strand Map - Vaal Spark, was it? - boss rush meta.

I think Prophecy League was when the game really took off, or maybe it was Legacy League later with the exploit. I actually used to own all the Prophecy MTX, on a different account that no longer exists. Navali's little monkey was one of them, as I recall. I started dipping my toes into YouTube videos at the end of 2015, learning a lot along the way when people were correcting me/helping me tweak my builds.

I'd say 2016 was the year where PoE got widespread recognition with the new Atlas expansion that introduced Shaper, and the new Ascendancies. The trailer for it was quite something. That's also around the time I first started to really experiment with builds, spending a shit ton of hours scouring the Wiki and Q&A by GGG, running tests myself. Shaper and Co. was pretty hard content at the time. That's also when I first played around with custom CWDT builds. They were not good, but I learned a lot. The Shaper and Elder ping-pong within the Atlas later down the road is something I don't have fond memories of. Nobody liked doing that.

Yeah, if I had to put a finger on it, I'd say 2016 was the year where people really started hearing about what this new game called "Path of Exile" was. Or, at least, that's what I remember as being the time when PoE was basically everywhere.

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eperon#3129 wrote:

Many of you already know this (and might have possibly mentioned it, I didn't read all comments here), but for those that don't, I thought that a look back at where it all started might be beneficial to this discussion.

Almost 13 years ago (January 2013), 0.10.0, the open beta for PoE 1 was released. If you look at some of the gameplay footage from back then (random example from ZiggyD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfuq_JlGYUA), you will notice that the game played quite a bit differently compared to modern PoE. It almost looks like "meaningful combat" - players dealt less damage and had less aoe, even some of the white mobs were hard to one shot. If the graphics weren't this outdated, you might actually think that this was footage from PoE 2's campaign.

Every time I play through the campaign of PoE 2, I can't help but be reminded of PoE 1's early days. It's a bit unfortunate that PoE 2 tried to ramp up it's endgame to PoE 1 levels so early in it's dev cycle - we all got so used to blasting through the campaign and most of the endgame in PoE 1 that GGG probably felt the need to scale PoE 2's endgame to comparable levels from the get go.

I hope that the changes to pack size in endgame for 0.4 and whatever is in store for 0.5 in April will help to properly define PoE 2's endgame identity.

Be patient with the game, there is no reason to get angry at the devs or other players who might prefer other playstyles than your own. Look at PoE 1, where it came from and how it got to where it is now and allow PoE 2 to take it's own journey, it's far from done!

I agree with most of what this man said, I actually liked closed beta poe than I do poe in its current state. It felt like a game, one that punished mistakes. It turned into (I push button, screen dies). Which gets boring... leave the casual play to d4.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

Listen, because I think you got me wrong. I'm not trying to argue with you regarding what PoE2 was, is, will be. I'm catching you on your hyperboles, that end up just being wrong.
You cannot say that PoE2 was ALLWAYS meant to be a different game (see what I did here ? that's why I started replying to you) because it's just not true. Even GGG didn't clearly know initially (and arguably still don't know now lol).

They don't want PoE2 to be slow intrinsically.

They NEED it to start slow, to give room for future content. That's it. And a lot of people talking so much about how slow PoE2 is better are in for a bad surprise overtime for that reason. It's only a matter of when, not if.

Dude....come on. Third try and still not quoting me or the video correctly. CW literally says in the video "Later today, in Jonathan's gameplay reveal". It is an entirely separate event at that particular exilecon where they go DEEPER in depth than the level 11 area being shown.

And you conveniently AGAIN ignored everything being SAID while watching that level 11 area gameplay.

They literally state for all to hear it: they want PoE 2 to be SLOW, more impactful, bigger and longer bosses, less PoE 1 blast everything on screen all at once. They SAY all that!!! They absolutely ABSOLUTELY want it to be intrinsically slower. Whether you think that is "right" design or not, that is what THEY the developers are literally telling you in multiple ways in 2019. At the very first reveal of PoE 2's existence. The beginning. The foundation. The vision for the game.

It was ALWAYS (not hyperbole, literally their design) meant to be different. The only thing debatable is the approach and how successful they were.

The developers knew EXACTLY what they wanted from the game, and told us as such over and over again whenever PoE 2 was being discussed. The "success" of reaching their vision is the only thing in doubt, which is why I stated a few pages earlier that the actual PROBLEM is that PoE 2 is becoming too close to PoE 1, and not the other way around. Based on the DEVELOPER'S stated plans for the game from 2019 until now.

Slower. Methodical. Meaningful and long bosses. Combo skills. Tactical play. Etc. It was all there from the VERY beginning. Very un-2019-PoE1 descriptions.


You are going to lose this argument because we have videos, interviews, and basically everything already quoted and linked in this thread showing that what you are saying is just wrong. Because you want to "gacha" me on hyperbole....when it ISN'T hyperbole. It's the ground plan.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The developers knew EXACTLY what they wanted from the game, and told us as such over and over again whenever PoE 2 was being discussed.

I have no interest in the argument you guys got going on here, but I just wanted to quickly mention that that line means squat. They literally told us "1 GAME, 2 CAMPAIGNS" before they did a complete 180 and decided to make a new game instead. Trying to hold them accountable for what was promised is exactly what we are doing.

Game development is a scary thing in these days. Reading some comments, I can honestly understand why developers are hesistant to release roadmaps. You can't go back on your word, ever, no matter if you realise later that an idea just doesn't work out or is too much work.

They pulled a reverse Overwatch 2 and seriously? That's the good ending

PoE2 is not Elden Ring. It's failed project, and should be scraped.
GGG can enhance visuals in PoE1 using PoE2 assets and that's it.
Ppl don't ask for ruthless slow permanent mode gameplay or ask for combo gameplay at all.

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

Game development is a scary thing in these days. Reading some comments, I can honestly understand why developers are hesistant to release roadmaps. You can't go back on your word, ever, no matter if you realise later that an idea just doesn't work out or is too much work.

That's a pretty bleak view on it. It's okay to have a change of plans, but that doesn't mean you get a freebie on not implementing something that was promised while still doing the other thing, while ALSO still raking in the money we thought (for years) was going towards PoE 1 improvements. If they would at least update the graphics, add the new model rigging and give us the promised gem system rework, I'd be okay with that, but we can't have that because it'd be directly competing with their new favorite child.

I realize that none of the above is an easy ask, but for fuck's sake, it's been over 6 years.