0.3 Maps Vs. 0.3.1 Maps (Big 0.3.1 Problems)

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

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mnmlsound#7326 wrote:

We need to restore the previous number of items and skulls on the map. Without this, there's no sense of reward and it's harder to navigate the map.

Yeah because in 2025 players can't play without icons on their minimap, lol

It's just convenient. I don't know about you, but I always keep an eye on the minimap. As mentioned above, rare monsters make up the bulk of the map loot.

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The_Song#4903 wrote:

Look lets all of us just acknowledge something here:

When a league starts with any sort of issue that allows people to rocket their farm too far above and beyond the rest of the playerbase, screwing up the economy;
there is absolutely no change GGG could possibly do that will fix, reduce, or otherwise address the problem in that same league.
The only change that has any potential to matter is the league ending.
Economy cannot be fixed, only reset.

Acknowledged to a degree, and bare in mind, this is my opinion, coming from someone who hasn't played many ARPG's - only D4 and PoE 2, but plays some games which have economies like Rust (so you know I'm used to grinding like a mad man, and losing everything in a matter of seconds/minutes), or WoW to a degree, which are seasonal (you'll get the seasonal aspect in a bit I hope).

Before proceeding to my explanation, I understand we're suppose to grind, I understand RnG is part of these games, I understand all this, and I agree with it, but, too much is too much.

With that out of the way, GGG could implement caps on costs for items and currency trading, based on rarity, based on how often they drop, based on how much currency exists in the game currently, based on previous seasons, etc - they have the data, they could do this, and in my opinion, it would help the community more, because items/currency being cheaper/capped, would allow players to play more classes/specs, try out a bunch of things, different gear, whatever, and still allow grinders to have a more than decent bank on their side. Also, at the same time, increase currency drop rate as this is king at the moment. In all seasons until now, the vast majority of the player base is at the mercy of players who blast a seasonal game in the first 2/3 weeks of the game, and then go away, leaving the economy in shambles, and that makes 0 sense, in a seasonal game, at least for me. Of course not every one should have access to BiS gear, have BiS stats, be rich, but again, in a seasonal game, where the majority of the player base has already little time to play, has to grind insanely to be able to taste a small portion of this power surge we see in videos, or whatever, where's the fun in this? Why am I grinding for 3,5 months, for the season to end in 4 months, and for me not to be able to get what I want/need, or at the very least to get mostly what I want/need?

Now, this being a seasonal game, at the very least I should be able to define a goal, select a spec/class, and try and push it to the limit or close to it, over the span of a league (4 months), and this is impossible for 99% of the player base in PoE 2 (probably I'm exaggerating but you get the point I hope) as the game currently stands - I can't farm to get currency in the sense I farm 2h per day and get 1 div for example, thus I can't craft nor buy good items, and so I ask, where is the fun in this, being this an ARPG? I want to be able to blast and clear content - this is a key aspect of an ARPG, but I can't or am very close to not being able to do it currently.

And note that I was enjoying the patch until 0.3.1, even though my main critics still apply because I have difficulties in farming and crafting and getting gear, etc, but still, for me the main fun is to get the campaign, but once I start grinding end game, I get frustrated really quick - 1 item I want today costs 10div, I spend 10 days grinding and get the currency, the item is now 20div, oh well... I see a video on how to craft the item I want, costs 3 div to craft, I spend 5 days grinding and get the currency, first omen I brick the item because RnG exists, and it's oh well again - where's the fun in this I ask? For me at least it's hard to see it.

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mnmlsound#7326 wrote:

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Sakanabi#6664 wrote:

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mnmlsound#7326 wrote:

We need to restore the previous number of items and skulls on the map. Without this, there's no sense of reward and it's harder to navigate the map.

Yeah because in 2025 players can't play without icons on their minimap, lol

It's just convenient. I don't know about you, but I always keep an eye on the minimap. As mentioned above, rare monsters make up the bulk of the map loot.

want to know the real reason people are pissed about the icons?

its because its generally the only way the vast majority of players even know a rare EXSISTS.

visual clarity in poe2, is even worse than poe1.... outside the exception of blight. where all rules of sanity and clarity and frames per second are thrown out the window... MUCH LIKE ABYSS WAS IN THE FIRST COUPLE DAYS until they came back from their vacation to realize half of their playerbase was disconnecting from their oversight of spawning 300 monsters per abyss pit. (which btw... was how people speed leveled who played the first couple of days. myself included)

people are pissed, because they HAVE to use the overlap map, to even see the fucking walls, and rocks not to roll into, and dead ends so they dont get swarmed.

and guess what showed up on the overlay map for them... thats right... rare icons.

i personally wouldnt have the slightest fucking idea i was fighting a rare on my... say... minion character... if that icon wasnt there.

it changes the way you play.
it changes the way you interact with the map.
and it changes the way you engage with npcs.

removing the icons after giving them to players that asked for them... is taking candy away from a baby. and then people are questioning why the baby is crying.

either give the candy back or dont question why the baby is crying.

you cant have it both ways.

much like you cant say you want people to explore the maps instead of icon ping pong... when you cant even see where your character is 90% of the map, without the overlay showing you where the map boundry is.

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Innuendos#5095 wrote:

people are pissed, because they HAVE to use the overlap map, to even see the fucking walls, and rocks not to roll into, and dead ends so they dont get swarmed.

This is actually a good point. Some layouts are difficult to navigate and the obstacles aren't always visually represented well. On these types of maps you basically always have your minimap overlaid.

They have already cleaned up some maps and hopefully they will keep doing it with map updates that just make the worse layouts a bit nicer.

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AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

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Innuendos#5095 wrote:

people are pissed, because they HAVE to use the overlap map, to even see the fucking walls, and rocks not to roll into, and dead ends so they dont get swarmed.

This is actually a good point. Some layouts are difficult to navigate and the obstacles aren't always visually represented well. On these types of maps you basically always have your minimap overlaid.

They have already cleaned up some maps and hopefully they will keep doing it with map updates that just make the worse layouts a bit nicer.

i actually don't have this problem and never play with overlay. yes sometimes you need to take a peak cuz terrain is unclear but its very very rare

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

i actually don't have this problem and never play with overlay. yes sometimes you need to take a peak cuz terrain is unclear but its very very rare

It is not rare for me, and I don't think it is rare for most. Most people will immediately start using their overlay to navigate the map if it gets awkward to see obstacles and stuff.

It just depends on the layout, but it would be way less of an issue if the worse maps had some more open space and less stuff you can't see very well in the way.

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BabaVoss#9386 wrote:

With that out of the way, GGG could implement caps on costs for items and currency trading, based on rarity, based on how often they drop, based on how much currency exists in the game currently, based on previous seasons, etc - they have the data, they could do this, and in my opinion, it would help the community more, because items/currency being cheaper/capped, would allow players to play more classes/specs, try out a bunch of things, different gear, whatever, and still allow grinders to have a more than decent bank on their side. Also, at the same time, increase currency drop rate as this is king at the moment. In all seasons until now, the vast majority of the player base is at the mercy of players who blast a seasonal game in the first 2/3 weeks of the game, and then go away, leaving the economy in shambles, and that makes 0 sense, in a seasonal game, at least for me. Of course not every one should have access to BiS gear, have BiS stats, be rich, but again, in a seasonal game, where the majority of the player base has already little time to play, has to grind insanely to be able to taste a small portion of this power surge we see in videos, or whatever, where's the fun in this? Why am I grinding for 3,5 months, for the season to end in 4 months, and for me not to be able to get what I want/need, or at the very least to get mostly what I want/need?

Now, this being a seasonal game, at the very least I should be able to define a goal, select a spec/class, and try and push it to the limit or close to it, over the span of a league (4 months), and this is impossible for 99% of the player base in PoE 2 (probably I'm exaggerating but you get the point I hope) as the game currently stands - I can't farm to get currency in the sense I farm 2h per day and get 1 div for example, thus I can't craft nor buy good items, and so I ask, where is the fun in this, being this an ARPG? I want to be able to blast and clear content - this is a key aspect of an ARPG, but I can't or am very close to not being able to do it currently.

And note that I was enjoying the patch until 0.3.1, even though my main critics still apply because I have difficulties in farming and crafting and getting gear, etc, but still, for me the main fun is to get the campaign, but once I start grinding end game, I get frustrated really quick - 1 item I want today costs 10div, I spend 10 days grinding and get the currency, the item is now 20div, oh well... I see a video on how to craft the item I want, costs 3 div to craft, I spend 5 days grinding and get the currency, first omen I brick the item because RnG exists, and it's oh well again - where's the fun in this I ask? For me at least it's hard to see it.

There is nothing GGG can do to prevent anything you just described. This is a typical capitalistic economy with 0 goods at the begining. Players who are first to deliver goods dictate prices and are getting ahead. When you are trying to trade same, it is already too late and prices are much, much lower. They were getting 1 div for a medium bow, you will get 1 ex. If you are ahead, you can easily become more ahead, by spending your currency and start crafting godly items and those items are the first on the market - and again much more expensive than at the point you can afford to craft those. That's why some player reach 5k div, while others struggles to get 50. Demand dictate prices and being first there is extremely beneficial. That is what happens in free economy. Of course, if you need 2h to farm 1 div you clearly doing something wrong. Probably you throwing away some valuable items or not selling other stuff you collect but not spending. I would say many players are much more richer than they think they are. Another thing is that economy shifts over time. At the begining no one is looking for a good bases for crafting, while in the middle of a season everyone wants a good bases for crafting. Understanding what is in demand also helps to value your drops better.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

i actually don't have this problem and never play with overlay. yes sometimes you need to take a peak cuz terrain is unclear but its very very rare

Do you instill your maps? Because with 100% fog uptime, playing without map overlay is just impossible :)

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BabaVoss#9386 wrote:

With that out of the way, GGG could implement caps on costs for items and currency trading, based on rarity, based on how often they drop, based on how much currency exists in the game currently, based on previous seasons, etc - they have the data, they could do this, and in my opinion, it would help the community more, because items/currency being cheaper/capped, would allow players to play more classes/specs, try out a bunch of things, different gear, whatever, and still allow grinders to have a more than decent bank on their side.

And how would they do that, exactly? You think that a cap on the merchant would prevent sellers from selling items for 10x the cap? In non-merchant trade there's a cap of 600 DIV (couse that's how much you can put into one trade window), and that didn't stop sellers from selling items for thousands of divines last league. You're being irrational thinking a cap would prevent from selling over that cap. It would just make high-end trading more inconvenient.

And with that being said, a cap on the market is not a good idea, I don't think you thought that through.

Also, if you think about it, there IS a cap on the prices. Every rare item has a cap of how costly it is to craft. Sellers can put their 3 mirror items on trade, however if you can craft it yourself for less than a mirror you would not buy it... And every unique has a cap of how many of them drop vs how useful it is.

As a developer you don't change the economy with restrictions like what you suggest, but with drop chances of items and crafting mats and available currency sinks. So the current economy and prices are exactly at the place GGG wants them to be. They're probably learning how some changes impact the economy and fine tune it along the way, to nail it before 1.0. I bet 0.3.0 was a huge test to more deterministic crafting and its impact on the market.

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KubaLy#4534 wrote:

And with that being said, a cap on the market is not a good idea, I don't think you thought that through.

He's right, and everyone will ignore you or tell you that you are wrong when you suggest the game should determine the prices instead of the players. That is not the ethos any of us playing ARPG operate under. It is a slippery slope to hell.

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KubaLy#4534 wrote:

Do you instill your maps? Because with 100% fog uptime, playing without map overlay is just impossible :)

In 0.3.1 for me, delirium was cleaned up a lot, but some people are saying it's still bad? Have you played it much on 0.3.1? I thought it was way better, maybe my game files are just magic

I think the problem with minimap needing to be overlaid currently most of the time really is just some layouts being more difficult to navigate with less obvious obstructions