The gold cost to trade is out of control and flat out ridiculous..

"

goetzjam#3084 wrote:

other then essentially "make it free"

He's going to come back and say he explicitly stated he DOESN'T want it to be free.

He just wants it to take no time.

Which to the sane person.....is the same thing lol.

I don't get this whole "gold" thing.

I mean, I got it in Settlers league, where some strategies didn't bring in any gold. But now? If you're "so far along" that you're trading for these amounts of currencies, you're in a place where earning enough gold is a trifle.

Gold is there so that players actually need to play the game to trade and I don't see a single problem with it. It slows down bots, it slows down hideout warriors and serves its purpose well enough.

Call me a madman... but when I read this... the only thing that came to mind was...

"It would be cool is 1500 fusing orbs acted like fragments, and stacked into a linking omen or something similar."

Call it a "Master Fusing Orb."
(Links all sockets on the item).

"

cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

You are 100% correct, making 100k gold in 2 minutes is "not normal". It's possible, but for a fully fleshed out character running endgame juiced content specifically designed for gold. And its also possible that maybe you aren't running the "optimal" atlas tree for gold farming within your 8mod map. If someone's goal was specifically to farm gold, they would have either looked up a gold atlas tree, or figured it out and optimized it: just like anyone would do with any endgame part of the game. Casually getting 28k gold in 10 minutes WITHOUT focusing on it means that you can engage in a mirror level (cost-wise) trade on Faustus in 1-2 hours. That is basically no time at all, considering you'd already be spending that time.....doing exactly what you are doing anyway.

Last time I bought a mirror with my divines, it cost me 150k gold. Using your data, that's an hour of non-dedicated farming. For one of the most expensive trades you can make. I'd hardly call that "frightening". And really, how many players are actually doing that? And if they saw the gold cost, they could always just use normal trade and finish instantly with ZERO gold cost. It's all about perspective, which many of the posts in this thread lack.

That said, the screenshot you see is far and away ALSO outside the realm of what is "normal" for Faustus. That is the whole point of this thread. If you are engaging with Faustus at that quantity/value/level, you are likely correspondingly at a higher level of gameplay, and correspondingly get a ton more gold. The thing OP has a major problem with is spending ANY time getting gold, and actually having to decide to focus on gold as it happens to be his personal bottleneck for what he tries to do. He tries to downplay it a few times, but then goes right back to the actual truth: he feels that there should be no choice, no farming involved because it "cuts into profits" to have to waste time playing the game.

Everything being discussed here is outside the bounds of what is "normal". In fact, that screenshot tells you everything you need to know. Not a single player is buying 1300 lesser eldritch orbs in a single sitting. Because if they were playing "normally", they would likely have all the lesser orbs they could ever need for their gear without having to trade a thing. You can get near 100 in a single map if you run altars with juice. While at the same time getting tons of gold for the next faustus trade.

You need to go back and reread my post where I refer to cutting into profits and comprehend what I said, because you are flat out lying and telling people things that I did not say and trying to paint a picture that is not true. When I refer to cutting into profits, I talk about spending my divines to buy rotas. Spending my divines to buy All flames or spending my divines to buy any kind of carry outside of farming my own gold because I need to supplement my own farm. WHICH I RUN CONSTINTALY. That is the profit being lost.

When I talk about having to choose, I'm talking about your idea of me having to choose between Settlers or Faustus or any other content that I want to run because I have to make a choice and it's limited.

Stop typing up your gaslighting make believe replies saying what I said that is not what I said because you can't take the time to comprehend what has been written before your gibberish

"

goetzjam#3084 wrote:

You seem to think that they can adjust it so its fair for all, it won't be. If they make the cost cheaper then it will be easier for people to flip, meaning you will get less when you go to buy anyway.

Its balanced so that you must engage with content in order to to use the ingame trade.

Now you make a choice of join gold rotation, farm gold yourself or use the old solution the game already had. It has a cost.


Not once did you say what would fix it for you, as a hideout crafter. Reduced cost can't be the solution because of the afore mentioned issue.


As far as normal or not, would need to do some test in my regular t16 maps with less then 10c of investment into it. I know I was blasting the maps quickly and getting plenty of the gold.


The way I view gold is its a restriction to players like OP that enjoy other aspects of the game. Do I agree that it should be so restricted against delve, heist, blightmaps, ect? Probably not anyone doing actual content should be getting better gold. Is it worth removing the cost completely or even reducing it making it even easier for flippers? Nope.

OP has plenty of solutions to his problem, but rather then to utilize a single one of them he complains to the devs, while offering no help on what could fix it other then essentially "make it free"

...I really wish GGG would implement a another separate system where feedback was not up for discussion, and solely considered by the Dev team, so Forum Warriors didn't' have the ability to what the both of you are doing... I guess I'll make that suggestion next...

First off, the both of you need to stop gas lighting, and writing lies about what I've written and what I haven't written. It's simply disgusting, and I really hope GGG looks at both of your personal attacks in this thread, Esp. you cowmoo275#3095. Looking at your forum history of 113 pages only since November of last year, (I'm SURE there are FAR more it just only goes back that far), it's clear you sit in these forums and purely instigate arguments. It really amazing to me you're even in this discussion, with not a single achievement in the current league it tells me you have not even played the current league, so how would you even be able to comprehend the burden of what I have pointed out here, with out understanding the current league economy having not even experienced it, ... Or... I'm sorry, do you think this is a discussion about Standard? (wow,.. I really hope that's not the disconnect,.. LMAO).

New league is new economy I DO NOT CARE what you did in settlers, this IS NOT Settlers. WHY ARE YOU HERE? (We all know why, just take a quick look at your history).

Even though goetzjam#3084 has over 8k posts on these forums, showing he also mains a Lvl 100 Forum Warrior of Kitava, at least he has been half way presentable with some decency. But you,.. right off the rip you're insulting to other users. Sad,.. Very, Very Sad


On a side note you both strike me as possible hard core players, purely on the fact someone wrote something to the effect of "why are you buying lesser Ichors? If you played the game you would have thousands of them just from picking them up" ..... .Nobody, and I mean nobody who plays softcore at an efficient level is picking up Lesser Ichors. That is never even on their filter. So again, if you are a Hardcore players, why are you even in this discussion? Trade is not really a thing for you at least nowhere in the realm of this discussion.



Neither of you know me, and have any right what so ever to say who I am, or what I think, or what I want. That is simply disgusting childish behavior.
Telling me I don't want to farm for gold, that I want to only sit in my HO and craft, or not play the game .. You literally need to stop, YOU DO NOT KNOW MY GAME PLAY

Why do you think I spent the time coming to this cesspool of narcissism to make the post in the first place???
Maybe its b/c I've spent the time for over a month in this league DOING THE EXACT THINGS both of you have been saying, maybe if you actually read my replies, you'd see in them, the multiple times I've repeated it.

THIS is a feedback AND suggestion forum
It is not required, NOR is it my job to say what the solution is. Nor is it your job to tell me or anyone else what can and can’t be. I presented an issue THAT IT IS CLEAR NEITHER OF YOU UNDERSTAND, and its is for GGG's consideration. Let me be clear on this:
I DO NOT have to justify to your attacks why this is an issue, eps because again it is abundantly clear both of you have no idea about why this is an issue, NOR do either of you care to understand more of why it's an issue. You'd both rather come into this thread and try to belittle someone, instead of asking questions to understand what you clearly know not about.



The problem we're having here is both of you seem to not be reading what I'm writing, or at least are just so stubborn to comprehend the objection. You maybe make it through a couple sentences, then you start typing up your reply with your opinion about how things are, what I want, and what I'm going to say, I'm literally on repeat because your regurgitation is literally contradiction of what I have repeated several times. If you actually took the time to read what I'm writing and processed it, you might actually have some perspective of what this conversation in entails.



Number one, You are both so focused on the image of Eldritch lesser Ichors, it blows my mind, even though in the post I explicitly stated it's just an example. It's a single purchase of ONE DIVINE I wanted to make one time, and at the end of a session having spent ONE MILLION GOLD TO FINISH CRAFTING AN ITEM, I went to buy these and was broke. If it hade been a REASONABLE say 30k gold for a SHIT TIER currency I WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE. The fact is it's a currency I don't put on my filter b/c I'm not going to click 1 million times to pick it up I'd rather buy it. I do this for ALL LESS THAN 1C CURRENCY just as most all other Extreme endgame players would do BECAUSE I FARM MAPS AT A HIGH LEVEL AND DON'T PUT JUNK IN MY FILTER. YES! READ THIS PART, YES, I FARM MAPS CAN YOU PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP TRING TO INSIST THAT I DON'T WANT TO FARM GOLD, SOMETHIG I NEVER SAID, AND IN FACT HAVE SAID REPETEDLY THE CONTRARY.

And no one is flipping Lesser Eldritch Ichors. To make that argument is pathetic.


I don't pick up lesser Eldridge Ichors because they are a waste of ******* time on my filter. It's much easier to be able to buy things of those small less than 1c currencies. I am juicing maps at the highest level. I don't want to see 500 Eldrich Lesser Ichors sitting on my map. Same with fusings, same with alchs, same with anything else of a lower currency that is need for base crafting. The problem is ALL OF THESE AND OTHERS have a ridiculous price to buy when trying to by ONE DIVINES WORTH. I'm sorry you can't understand this.

I can't believe I have to bold can capitalize so much in the hopes it might catch your eye and that you might process it... What a time we live in.. But I'm so fricking tired of repeating myself....
Further,... (smh),.. in an effort to take the shiny thing your so focused on (Ichors) and expand your focus, I will be updating the OP with additional images of various OTHER currencies that have ridiculous pricing


No matter what, you're going to have flippers. There is no way around that. No matter what, you're going to have bots doing RMT through different sites. Nothing is going to change that. Again its not my job to present a solution for GGG. BUT, it is my right just like anyone else to come back to the FEEBACK FORUM and let GGG know things feel bad, and maybe there might be others who feel the same.

But no,.. here you two come, Thinking it's your job to come shoot down any idea of something you disagree with. Fine you disagree with it, fine you don't want to understand or ask reasonable questions why it might be an issue, at a different level you don't play at. But to sit there and assume this person plays this way, or they are a flipper, or whatever make believe you come up with is appalling and quite frankly disgusting.


I'm going to say it again. I have every right, every right to want to be able to play any part of the game in any combination that I want to, because THAT is the way GGG presents it, not limited options. If I want to play settlers and I want to also craft and I want to map and farm all at the same time, it is my right to attempt to do so. Just as it is my right and anyone else to come back to the forum and say what doesn't work. GGG can than tell us what is and what not is. You have no authority to tell anyone what part of the game they can play and what part of the game they cannot play. Who are you? GGG has never once said the things you try to present that "Oh well, you can't do settlers if you want a craft and farm gold to trade with Faustus." That is never a thing, GGG said. In fact, it has always been the opposite. They want you to play everything your heart desires.

AND again I will point out, ON CAMERA Johnathan clearly stated The gold for Trading would not impact players playing the game. I WILL SAY IT ONE MORE TIME TO BE LOUD AND CLEAR IN HOPE AT LEAST ONE OF YOU WILL PROCCESS

I FARM GOLD, I FARM A METRIC F*** TON OF GOLD, I AM HERE SAYING IT FEELS BAD


jfc,.. spending my time writing novels for closed minds..

The biggest drawback of the OP for why GGG is almost unlikely to ever consider improving gold gains is that it would trivialize the point of needing gold to exist in the first place.

Bear in mind that it took years, hell over a decade, to get GGG to finally budge on automated trade that they wrote a manifesto about ages ago. Requiring gold to engage in trade is the closest thing they could think of for a fair compromise, as they want you to engage in the core gameplay loop. They clearly want you to break your back in farming gold to maintain steady trades in the Currency Exchange system, and the more heavily you rely upon it, the harsher they want it to be. To make gold costs lower is to trivialize the gate they put in place.

Would what you're asking for make it easier for high-end near-mirror tier crafters to obtain the currencies needed to mass produce gear? Absolutely. However, this will also devalue gold for everyone else in the game as it's consequently easier for more people to engage in larger trades more often. And that's the problem here, the number of average players outnumber high tier crafters by a staggering degree. They must be accounted for.

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

The biggest drawback of the OP for why GGG is almost unlikely to ever consider improving gold gains is that it would trivialize the point of needing gold to exist in the first place.

Bear in mind that it took years, hell over a decade, to get GGG to finally budge on automated trade that they wrote a manifesto about ages ago. Requiring gold to engage in trade is the closest thing they could think of for a fair compromise, as they want you to engage in the core gameplay loop. They clearly want you to break your back in farming gold to maintain steady trades in the Currency Exchange system, and the more heavily you rely upon it, the harsher they want it to be. To make gold costs lower is to trivialize the gate they put in place.

Would what you're asking for make it easier for high-end near-mirror tier crafters to obtain the currencies needed to mass produce gear? Absolutely. However, this will also devalue gold for everyone else in the game as it's consequently easier for more people to engage in larger trades more often. And that's the problem here, the number of average players outnumber high tier crafters by a staggering degree. They must be accounted for.

^ This.

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

The biggest drawback of the OP for why GGG is almost unlikely to ever consider improving gold gains is that it would trivialize the point of needing gold to exist in the first place.

Bear in mind that it took years, hell over a decade, to get GGG to finally budge on automated trade that they wrote a manifesto about ages ago. Requiring gold to engage in trade is the closest thing they could think of for a fair compromise, as they want you to engage in the core gameplay loop. They clearly want you to break your back in farming gold to maintain steady trades in the Currency Exchange system, and the more heavily you rely upon it, the harsher they want it to be. To make gold costs lower is to trivialize the gate they put in place.

Would what you're asking for make it easier for high-end near-mirror tier crafters to obtain the currencies needed to mass produce gear? Absolutely. However, this will also devalue gold for everyone else in the game as it's consequently easier for more people to engage in larger trades more often. And that's the problem here, the number of average players outnumber high tier crafters by a staggering degree. They must be accounted for.

Once again, I'm not saying to annihilate the gold system. I'm saying it may need tuning. I understand there needs to be burden, what people are missing is the point that the "Burden" could possibly be too high at other levels.

Its not far fetched to think GGG who continually puts out untuned content, may be off on the tuning here. I'm sorry that "Most players" can't see what I can see, but it's fair for those of us that can see it to point out, "Hey, GGG, can you please take a look at this."

EDIT:
Further more we're typically talking ONE (1) DIVINE worth of material here. I'm not showing that I want to buy 400000 fussings or low tier currency to flip. I'm saying could it possibly scale at A REASONABLE LEVEL, because guess what happens when you DO want to buy multiple divines worth of inventory for multiple projects.

Original post updated to provide greater variety of shiny objects to focus on.

"

JediWabbit#3091 wrote:

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

The biggest drawback of the OP for why GGG is almost unlikely to ever consider improving gold gains is that it would trivialize the point of needing gold to exist in the first place.

Bear in mind that it took years, hell over a decade, to get GGG to finally budge on automated trade that they wrote a manifesto about ages ago. Requiring gold to engage in trade is the closest thing they could think of for a fair compromise, as they want you to engage in the core gameplay loop. They clearly want you to break your back in farming gold to maintain steady trades in the Currency Exchange system, and the more heavily you rely upon it, the harsher they want it to be. To make gold costs lower is to trivialize the gate they put in place.

Would what you're asking for make it easier for high-end near-mirror tier crafters to obtain the currencies needed to mass produce gear? Absolutely. However, this will also devalue gold for everyone else in the game as it's consequently easier for more people to engage in larger trades more often. And that's the problem here, the number of average players outnumber high tier crafters by a staggering degree. They must be accounted for.

Once again, I'm not saying to annihilate the gold system. I'm saying it may need tuning. I understand there needs to be burden, what people are missing is the point that the "Burden" could possibly be too high at other levels.

Its not far fetched to think GGG who continually puts out untuned content, may be off on the tuning here. I'm sorry that "Most players" can't see what I can see, but it's fair for those of us that can see it to point out, "Hey, GGG, can you please take a look at this."

EDIT:
Further more we're typically talking ONE (1) DIVINE worth of material here. I'm not showing that I want to buy 400000 fussings or low tier currency to flip. I'm saying could it possibly scale at A REASONABLE LEVEL, because guess what happens when you DO want to buy multiple divines worth of inventory for multiple projects.

I wasn't implying you wanted to annihilate the gold system. How do you know the gold cost isn't already tuned to account for players such as yourself, moving significant amounts of currency?

I couldn't begin to know how much gold it costs you to purchase a bunch of what you need for crafting, but if I were to assume you pay 10,000,000 gold on average and GGG tweaked it to cost 10-20% less (9,000,000-8,000,000 gold), that would still have a knock-on effect for the rest of the playerbase that massively outnumber you and people like you to the tune of tens or hundreds of thousands.

GGG is walking a tight rope here for balance as far as the market is concerned. I wouldn't hold it past them to account not only for the vast majority of average players, but also the handful of ultra wealthy crafters.

Just want to make something clear, by the way: In no way am I trying to be a white-knight about this. Goodness knows I've made a ton of criticism aimed at GGG over the years. Can't believe it took them literally this long to implement one of the most requested QoL trading mechanics in the game, and by far the best QoL they've implemented since lockstep and special stash tabs. That all being said, I'm sure GGG has already run the numbers on how to balance the gold costs, especially considering how they hold the player market as tantamount to sacred.

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

"

JediWabbit#3091 wrote:

"

Pizzarugi#6258 wrote:

The biggest drawback of the OP for why GGG is almost unlikely to ever consider improving gold gains is that it would trivialize the point of needing gold to exist in the first place.

Bear in mind that it took years, hell over a decade, to get GGG to finally budge on automated trade that they wrote a manifesto about ages ago. Requiring gold to engage in trade is the closest thing they could think of for a fair compromise, as they want you to engage in the core gameplay loop. They clearly want you to break your back in farming gold to maintain steady trades in the Currency Exchange system, and the more heavily you rely upon it, the harsher they want it to be. To make gold costs lower is to trivialize the gate they put in place.

Would what you're asking for make it easier for high-end near-mirror tier crafters to obtain the currencies needed to mass produce gear? Absolutely. However, this will also devalue gold for everyone else in the game as it's consequently easier for more people to engage in larger trades more often. And that's the problem here, the number of average players outnumber high tier crafters by a staggering degree. They must be accounted for.

Once again, I'm not saying to annihilate the gold system. I'm saying it may need tuning. I understand there needs to be burden, what people are missing is the point that the "Burden" could possibly be too high at other levels.

Its not far fetched to think GGG who continually puts out untuned content, may be off on the tuning here. I'm sorry that "Most players" can't see what I can see, but it's fair for those of us that can see it to point out, "Hey, GGG, can you please take a look at this."

EDIT:
Further more we're typically talking ONE (1) DIVINE worth of material here. I'm not showing that I want to buy 400000 fussings or low tier currency to flip. I'm saying could it possibly scale at A REASONABLE LEVEL, because guess what happens when you DO want to buy multiple divines worth of inventory for multiple projects.

I wasn't implying you wanted to annihilate the gold system. How do you know the gold cost isn't already tuned to account for players such as yourself, moving significant amounts of currency?

I couldn't begin to know how much gold it costs you to purchase a bunch of what you need for crafting, but if I were to assume you pay 10,000,000 gold on average and GGG tweaked it to cost 10-20% less (9,000,000-8,000,000 gold), that would still have a knock-on effect for the rest of the playerbase that massively outnumber you and people like you to the tune of tens or hundreds of thousands.

GGG is walking a tight rope here for balance as far as the market is concerned. I wouldn't hold it past them to account not only for the vast majority of average players, but also the handful of ultra wealthy crafters.

Just want to make something clear, by the way: In no way am I trying to be a white-knight about this. Goodness knows I've made a ton of criticism aimed at GGG over the years. Can't believe it took them literally this long to implement one of the most requested QoL trading mechanics in the game, and by far the best QoL they've implemented since lockstep and special stash tabs. That all being said, I'm sure GGG has already run the numbers on how to balance the gold costs, especially considering how they hold the player market as tantamount to sacred.

That's just the thing isn't it? We don't know if it's tuned perfectly or if it's untuned or if certain groups have it better than others. That's simply why I made a post saying, "Hey GGG this feels like **** at this level". From there, it's up to GGG to come back or not come back and say "it's working as intended", or "yeah, we can take a look at it". But, how would they even know if there is a problem that they haven't tuned for if somebody doesn't speak up?

How many times in live interviews with Ziggy D has a question come up and Mark himself as said, "oh, we didn't think about that" or, "It shouldn't be like that", or "that wasn't intended". "We'll look into it".


Also as I stated before. I'm not presenting a solution, I'm just presenting the feedback. In my experience, with background being in IT and application development, I can tell you that there are hundreds if not thousands of ways if this needs tuned for GGG to take care of it and maybe not affect the lower tiers. They maybe could tune by tiering, and only certain tiers. I'm sure that's a possibility, but again, it's not something I need to delve into as far as what's the solution. I just present the feedback. I also understand that the needs of the many will outweigh the needs of the few. What's failing to hit the mark in this post with other people who've Been attacking this thread is that I'm not a small minority. I am not the 1% top tier crafter. I am a profit crafter who's probably in the medium tier of crafting. I guarantee you there may be a lot more people like me than what is being given credit for.

The problem is, this thread has turned into opinionated personal attacks being presented as facts. Instead of presenting "in my experience, that's not a problem", then moving on so that others might chime in, the same people keep replying with just how wrong I am for not playing the game how they think it should be played, as well as assuming how I'm playing the game without even bothering to read repeated replies to their outlandish assumptions that I do not want to play the game or farm for gold. The Gold farms do not scale hard enough for the higher tier crafters who also want to enjoy playing the game. period, end of story.



And I understand your points. I know you're not white knighting. I think you have valid points. I respect the posts that you replied with in the way that you have and not just coming in here and telling me how I have to play the game because that's how you play it. I've been playing this game for a long time as well, I'm just not one of those people who has to point it out in every single post to get some kind of clout about how right I might be. I understand the Qol changes GGG have made we've been waiting for for a decade and I appreciate them, but I also am not one to sit back and just appreciate what could be A 1/2 baked Implementation.