We want auto pickup companion subscription based like China users have.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Okay, so does the game track these natural competitions? Or is it just a feeling, aka. I feel good because I have 700 divines 3 weeks into the league and most people only have 30?

Does you having this currency advantage, remove from other players experiences, aka a winner, and a loser?

So you view "competition" only as something where someone is a loser and someone is a winner?

Listen, "competition" does not need a "who is place 1, 2 or 3", it's can be an ongoing process.

If everybody starts the same on a new league you compete with others (if you don't disengage from trade) about resources/items. It's that simple.

Whether you feel "better" with 700 divines or not has nothing to do with the competitive nature, it's just your subjective feeling about something.

"

I'm telling you it never happened, because it never happened. You misread, or misunderstood something I wrote, and instead of asking me to clarify, you're trying to TELL me what you thought it said.

I know what I said.

Are you sure about that?

I quote:

"

The first step is that you need to realize that half the mechanics in the game are aimed at trying to get you to buy something. Or keep you engaged. Aka, playing longer.

That's from a conversation we had about the "Mapping System" were you stated things like this too:

"

The only argument I'm making here, is that the game is worse because of it. And it is. It's bad game design, it incentivizes profits over enjoyment. The game company doesn't put it's passion into the game.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

BLEH

I don't disagree with you at all.

Just pointing out the fact that PoE is not a competitive game. Pay 2 Win features are in multiplayer games. In single player it doesn't matter.

Be honest, when was the last time you played with a friend?

Is there some sort of leaderboard in this game that actually matters? Some sort of PVP oriented gameplay?

Poe (both) is kind of competitive, not in the leader boards although some do compete for that, but in terms of the faster you get to endgame and the better items the more you can make from them.
As for playing solo or grouped, typically in PoE1 solo play was the norm, as there was no advantage (could argue a disadvantage) to group play. In PoE2 there is an apparent advantage to go with the disadvantage of group play and it will take time to see how this pans out but it could encourage group play a lot.

"

suutamulumi#5617 wrote:

Why don't you two wrap it up and agree that poe isn't as competitive as games like Starcraft or LoL, but that the leaderboards and economy is somewhat competitive or competitive game adjacent, whether we choose to take part in it or not.

"

Does you having this currency advantage, remove from other players experiences, aka a winner, and a loser?

The richer players can manipulate the economy, thus affecting the experience for the poorer players. That's why many people "race" at league start. That's how it works. Whether you want to attach labels such as "remove" and "win/lose" to that is up to you.

It's competitive if you choose for it to be. That's all I'm saying.

Most players will just look at trading as paying a vendor for an item. A few people take it further than that, controlling the market. Small percentage of players.

There's nothing wrong with that either, but PoE isn't a competitive game because of it. Most people don't partake in it the same way. Choice.

Who is we?

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

BLEH x2

Just pointing out the fact that PoE is not a competitive game. Pay 2 Win features are in multiplayer games. In single player it doesn't matter.

If 99% of players play Solo, play PVE. There's no leaderboards. It's effectively a single player game.

Except for trading makes that untrue, in ssf fair enough except you can opt out of ssf into trade so again untrue.

edit: as an example if meta builds (such as streamers post early as starters, and regular known ones) use say a cold iron point, the faster you play the quicker you’ll find one and if your the first you have a monopoly.
Other items that are game changing for builds only drop from mapping, for example target farming doctor div cards, so gettting to mapping quicker is better. The alternative is to go slow, get there late prices have gone up on rare drops and down on common drops so you’re making less and having to spend more.
I don’t do 3-4 hour campaigns in poe1 and am more of the 8-10 hour player but even between those 2 brackets I regularly see differences in profitability. PoE2 so far hasn’t proven to be the same at all, but probably will do and only time will tell.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

So you view "competition" only as something where someone is a loser and someone is a winner?

Technically yes. That's the aspect of competition. To be superior to someone else in some way.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Listen, "competition" does not need a "who is place 1, 2 or 3", it's can be an ongoing process.

Never claimed it was. But there's always a hierarchy in a competition, even if it's always changing.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

If everybody starts the same on a new league you compete with others (if you don't disengage from trade) about resources/items. It's that simple.

This is a personal choice to view this aspect of the game like that. A mindset. It doesn't mean it is competitive. It just means some people choose to compete with it.

A choice. Which is why I keep using that word.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Whether you feel "better" with 700 divines or not has nothing to do with the competitive nature, it's just your subjective feeling about something.

You're right. It's entirely subjective. Which is my point.

People choose to view the economy in this game as a competition, they usually do so because they like the feeling of competition/superiority they get from it, and doing well in it.

It's a choice to view it this way. The game isn't designed around someone coming out on top. It's a choice the players make.

The game itself, isn't competitive. The players make it competitive. PoE is not competitive.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Are you sure about that?

Yes, I'm very sure.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

I quote:

"

The first step is that you need to realize that half the mechanics in the game are aimed at trying to get you to buy something. Or keep you engaged. Aka, playing longer.

Yes. They are. How does this go along with your statement claiming that I said "Mapping was designed to sell stash tabs"?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

That's from a conversation we had about the "Mapping System" were you stated things like this too:

"

The only argument I'm making here, is that the game is worse because of it. And it is. It's bad game design, it incentivizes profits over enjoyment. The game company doesn't put it's passion into the game.

And.. Again, how does this go into your claim that I'm saying Mapping was made to sell you stash tabs?


GGG put mapping in the game for a fun experience. There's nothing wrong with that.

But here's how it's problematic.

1. Game has limited storage

2. Maps were added, in a large amount. That require increased storage

3. Instead of giving you extra storage. They sell you extra storage.

4. You're now incentivized to buy extra storage, because you don't have space to store your maps and other items now.




This has negative effects. Such as lowering your player experience. Unless you pay.

This is a manipulative, sneaky way to make money. Design a problem, aka limited storage, and sell solutions to it, aka, more storage.. for money.

And then designing things in a way that take up large amounts of storage.

I never claimed mapping was made to sell stash tabs. I am pointing out how they keep adding stuff to the game, that takes up more and more storage space. Of which you have a limited amount.

Unless you buy.

"

Timbo Zero#8289 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

BLEH

I don't disagree with you at all.

Just pointing out the fact that PoE is not a competitive game. Pay 2 Win features are in multiplayer games. In single player it doesn't matter.

Be honest, when was the last time you played with a friend?

Is there some sort of leaderboard in this game that actually matters? Some sort of PVP oriented gameplay?

Poe (both) is kind of competitive, not in the leader boards although some do compete for that, but in terms of the faster you get to endgame and the better items the more you can make from them.
As for playing solo or grouped, typically in PoE1 solo play was the norm, as there was no advantage (could argue a disadvantage) to group play. In PoE2 there is an apparent advantage to go with the disadvantage of group play and it will take time to see how this pans out but it could encourage group play a lot.

Nothing wrong with people wanting to play the game differently.

I just want to know the actual numbers of people that actually "Compete" in the economy.

Because I'm guessing it's a very small amount of the playerbase. That's kind of the point of the posts people are making, about aiming the game at player enjoyment. Small portion of the playerbase actually ever hits end-game, spams maps, hoards currency. Vast majority quit before even interacting with these systems. There's a huge playerbase that might play this game, if some changes were made. I make these assumptions based on the achievements for the game, and the amount of players it has. Even the way people quit leagues and rejoin.

If the argument is "We can't have quality of life features because 5% of the playerbase likes to compete in the economy" I argue that 95% of players, outranks the 5%. And many games do this thing where they only balance for the top percentage of players, which drastically reduces the quality and enjoyment of the game for the rest, eventually leading them to quit.

I saw no advantage to doing PoE 2 group play, unless it's different at end-game. In PoE 1 though, it's usually quite a detriment, and usually non-ideal. Especially given the clear speed solo.

+1

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

I don't disagree with you at all.




I saw no advantage to doing PoE 2 group play, unless it's different at end-game. In PoE 1 though, it's usually quite a detriment, and usually non-ideal. Especially given the clear speed solo.

At the moment it's being abused... Just check YouTube for aura bots with high mf. There's a reason the economy is so messed up, bottors with group play just printing money. Few videos explain the set up... Am hoping GGG are aware and will do something about it... But assuming they will let it be...


Anyways back on topic no idea how we got to a p2w Vs not p2w discussion.. think auto pick up would be a good quality of life addition. Saying that is p2w is daft... Otherwise you might aswell say having quad stashtabs is pay to win....just saying .

"

TheHairo#1049 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

I don't disagree with you at all.




I saw no advantage to doing PoE 2 group play, unless it's different at end-game. In PoE 1 though, it's usually quite a detriment, and usually non-ideal. Especially given the clear speed solo.

At the moment it's being abused... Just check YouTube for aura bots with high mf. There's a reason the economy is so messed up, bottors with group play just printing money. Few videos explain the set up... Am hoping GGG are aware and will do something about it... But assuming they will let it be...


Anyways back on topic no idea how we got to a p2w Vs not p2w discussion.. think auto pick up would be a good quality of life addition. Saying that is p2w is daft... Otherwise you might aswell say having quad stashtabs is pay to win....just saying .

Oh okay, yeah I didn't know that, nor would I care how people play. The only thing stopping people from doing that would be GGG deciding to balance the game around the economy.

As for the P2W, because he viewed it as a pay to win feature because some people might make a small amount of extra currency or something from it.

I argue it doesn't matter. This game could be entirely solo, and most people would get the same, or better experience without the economy. The emphasis on the economy kind of ruins the game. But then again, most ARPG's I played were all offline, and the gameplay was the main focus, not trading. Some had it, but it was a bonus, an extra. Game didn't need it to draw you in for 1000 hours or more.

Yeah, there's quite a few features that I see from the chinese client that would be nice to have. Probably others too. A lot of them are aimed at reducing your time spent doing small tasks. This game demands a lot of time.