The ONLY way to make melee feel good is by slowing everything down
" This thread is one of the finest answer to your question. The answer is simple. And if we have to, we can continue endlessly. I know what you mean but from outside of our context, ppl see it as "A is not B ! Why can't you understand ? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND", just like when we mention about GGG's intention. Edit Just in case it didn't make sense. One of its purest form of this topic is "IT'S BAD. MAKE IT BETTER". Edit 2 I'm from the farthest east part of melee union and saying "IT'S SWEET. MAKE IT BITTER". Stop Bombing /Flu_prevention_mode ON Moment Joon 【Passport & Garcon】https://bit.ly/2wXiUSj MonoNeon 【Put On Earth For You】https://bit.ly/3I22mru Last edited by finisterre#5659 on Jan 27, 2025, 8:33:01 AM
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when talking about d3 one of the best feels that melee has in the game comes from blizzard "cheating".
since the game is not "classless", blizzard actually slapped a 30% damage reduction to all melee classes. this way despite melee sometimes not having as much dps as other classes, it feels tanky. its not tanky because of the gear numbers. its simply because of this buff and other class centric defensive passives/options. it is also why i pointed out way earlier that we cannot "buff defences" for melee in POE as theres no easy way to distinguish if the player is going melee or not. in poe1 cast on crit "melee" was also a thing. in fact this buff made it easy for blizzard to balance classes. for example, crusader on paper stupidly strong defense wise. its so tough that blizz actually DISABLED the 30% melee class DR from crusader. and yeah speaking of d3 it really reminds me how much slower the game was, how much more deliberate it was. it also reminded me how i was pissed that dodge roll was only available for console players, like wtf. a lot of ppl shit on d3 for having huge ass jarring on screen effects. but at least i can see the huge ass meteor aoe that i need to avoid VERY CLEARLY unlike poe2's meteors that can catch me off guard TOO EASILY. i would also add, to blizzard's credit. d3 initially had players having attack speed meta VERY EARLY on, blizzard slapped a GLOBAL 50% attack speed reduction. ALL MODS with attack speed was also reduced by 50%. it was a good way to reign in player power so they could balance the end game. unfortunately blizzard only had a rough idea on how to make an end game. it ended up where players did millions then billions of dps. fuck all their balancing. [Removed by Support] Last edited by exsea#1724 on Jan 27, 2025, 3:10:37 AM
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yeah there was moments where D3 actually made some sense and there was a good variety of builds that felt good to play, gameplay in general was reasonable. the game never got as mental as poe1 at its worst either.
but the set bonuses with 20,000% damage etc are an abomination and we now have stuff like ponysader which is one of the most degenerate "everything else now feels pointless" type builds imaginable. but the original into the fray tornado sprint ww barb, although unintentionally designed, was imo one of the best feeling builds to ever be in an arpg. you actually had to play it well to make it work unlike the way ww now works and cyclone in poe where you just hold down the button and it happens. it was a stroke of unintentional genius that should have been studied as a new way to envisage making a skill based build system but instead they just removed it from the game eventually and replaced it with the most skill-less idiotic version of a whirlwind build imaginable. tragic. i used to love condemn on the crusader too where you would pull in the enemies, there was a tactical push/pull nature to the gameplay of grouping stuff and avoiding stuff, managing defensive cooldowns, you had to think about things and properly control the battlefield. hammering the button sucked and they should have made it so you could hold it down. instead they removed it again and made it a minion build? blizzard are so stupid it hurts. but no one can take away there have been periods in D3s history and builds along the way that were excellent examples of how to do arpg gameplay really well. unfortunately some of the people who didnt realise them were the people at blizzard making the game. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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during the weekends i did my regular bossing.
i take pride in avoiding most damage by dodging out of the way. that time i was up against balbala. one fight which i hated when i first started playing the game. but now i love it. its intense. i also know it quite well so i can avoid damage. unfortunately i failed to realize that the map had increased speed mod. it ended VERY BADLY. in normal circumstance, even when balbala had the advantage of damage mods, its fine. i could supplement my character's survival by player skill. just avoiding damage altogether. i knew her attack patterns. BUT NO. if we were playing MTG, shes casting all her spells/skills at instant speed. telegraphing might as well not be there. i could avoid he bigger hits but still she slapped fast and hard. drinking potions had its limits. what counter play did i have? if i was ranged at least i could kite her. my hammer of gods usually missed her since shes so nimble. i lost the battle where normally it would have been a breeze. i would admit i share blame as i still chose to run the map. but it serves to show another reason not to run melee. had i run that map as a ranged character, i could whittle her health down much more easily. [Removed by Support]
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" to me i hate set items, its as though the game devs dont have faith that players would come up with interesting builds on their own, so set items were created to steer players on the right path. ironically, as much as a lot of players shit on d4 for having a twig of a "tree". a huge lot of poe lovers are build followers who would sooner tell newer players or complainers to just follow a build guide. talking about d3. yeah i do miss it. d3's melee is still better than poe1 for a very long time. i want to like diablo series but i prefer games that let me mix and match rather than choosing a specific class. [Removed by Support]
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" I didn't get to play crusader but hearing this makes me mourn D3 and just not having good melee mechanics. It makes me think of Heroes of the Storm a bit. I do really wish PoE was deliberate like this. The entire skill tree is such a strange thing. It starts out feeling free, but then only feels limiting (I always felt this way in PoE1 even). Last edited by wesinhuman#4716 on Jan 27, 2025, 3:46:50 AM
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" This is my first proper POE experience and I can tell already there's just optimal pathing and un-optimal, although that can be tweaked by some unique gear or some heavy sacrifice in one area. Like if you don't want to crit...there's a fair bit more flexibility but the severe lack of crafting and the need for rn-jesus on gear limits POE2's building potential significantly...like how cool would it be to just craft and simply make sacrifices with gear to expand your playstyle/reach in the passive tree but one of the top devs makes it so I need to heavy grind or be forced to use player trading, meh... "We don't want crafting to be deterministic" ye ok cool, let me just happily throw away countless amounts of boots that never came with the movement speed prefix or melee weapons without physical damage % prefix, I love your game GGG please continue to excite my senses... Last edited by TrunktenUK#3407 on Jan 27, 2025, 4:38:21 AM
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" crafting right now im poe2 is trash, for sure, but trust me they wont be happy with how it currently plays out either and over the next few years you will see so many new ways to craft stuff added to the game. they need to fix essences and omens because the current implementation is absolutely shit. but the game will probably end up releasing with a somewhat limited ability to craft in order to give themselves some room to grow, because every 3 months we will get a new league and most of them will come with a new crafting mechanic to expand whats possible. its shit right now, but dont study that too hard cause the game is so far from being ready for release. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" I feel like you're speaking about a foundational flaw like if its just casually a platform/stepping stone to easy improve the game via significant season 2/3/4 updates etc. GGG should be a big boy by now, they've had their success being the "right kind of D2 successor" and now they've got their mainstream meteor in POE2 and at the end of the day... - Their crafting system is a rip off of POE1 and only appeals to 1000+ hr players at best. - Their trading "solution" to player needs is very questionable (lets just be honest, lazy). - Their attempt to transform/evolve the ARPG scene has evidently falled flat in their extreme lack of care for the End Game, which is just essentially a POE1 "spam the most powerful skill you have" Look, this thread is a winner, it is essentially the number 1 solution, make everything as "bad" as Warrior and we have a game, challenge and a purpose to press multiple buttons...minus the hell hole that is "crafting" (I wouldn't even call it crafting, augmenting and praying). They could literally make Omens 1000%+ chance to acquire from Rituals and I don't even feel "crafting" would be exciting. Last edited by TrunktenUK#3407 on Jan 27, 2025, 6:42:21 AM
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yes. Nerf zoom, remove oneshots (for both players vs bosses and monsters vs players), make game a game again.
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