XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere

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PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

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Granmarx#4566 wrote:

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PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

Imagine GGG remove xp penalty, and give us 6 portals, what would it mean?

1. Literally 0 reason investing into defense at all or above bare minimum.
2. It doesn't matter if you die or not, you still have more portals anyway.
3. This encourage more and more people play exactly same fastest range builds.
4. This encourage people play builds that clear screens with half of gear being rarity and 0 defenses.
5. It just deletes build diversity, when most of players play same build.

Not denying that some stuff there in maps do hit hard. And it hit harder if you don't care about mods on your waystones that can make easy map into deadly map.

If you die in maps on your 1500 life build, its not game problem, its your problem.
If you die in maps because you didn't bother investing into defenses, its not game problem, its your problem.

Game will change a lot and not once during Early Access. Work around to make your character good, instead of complaining about "game problem" that is your build problem in reality.

Some tips that might help you:

- On builds that naturally don't have high life, you should definitely go into hybrid life/es, or life/es/evasion, its good, its worth it.

- You might know that armor is bad, work around it, get a bit of armor against smaller hits, just stack more life against bigger hits instead of going hard into armor, since currently there's just nothing in the game that hit for more than 4k phys damage, so for example 4k life character with 5k armor will tank higher hit than 3k life character with 15k armor.

- Most of stuff that kill you in maps is elemental but not phys. So max resists and higher life/es is the way to make melee character tanky. Very few mobs that you find in maps can hit hard with phys damage, but almost all if not all of those mobs are very slow and easy to avoid.

Edit: changed some points because some people take every single word literally.

Hmm instresting point of view so the problem as you say its on player not on the game .Ok cool lets take what you say and analyse it .
1)"the player has the problem with his build and his game play"
2)"the game its perfect with every single mechanic works pretty fine and doesnt need changes"
3)"exp its good way to keep the balance on the game and build diversity"
And then you gave out some tips for new player's ( i will focus on this )
So to give you some infos i am new player on the game never tuch the poe1 i spend 450 hours on poe2 and 300+hours on youtube i am lvl 95 monk and 20% playing CI with 5.5k ES . Now after the infos so you know with who you talking i feel its important for the conversation i want to go to your thoughs.
All the things you mentions and what you say would be great and on point IF GGG would take the time to explain what the f is going on in the ther game .New player has 0 litteraly 0 info comming throu the game all he need's to do its to spend the same amount of game play hours on internet .
So all your points for me are not based , we dont have anything explaing us what we need to do with our gear how to fix it , how to gear up , why we need to use rarity , what attacks the monsters does , what we need to take care off when we facing an specific type of monsters , how and why we need to juice maps , what maps are deadly and need to be avoided , how the "end game" leagues work and what we need to focus on atlas , how atlas works in general .
I can go on forever , sadly litteraly 0 info for new playes and thats kills the game for a casual new player that never tuch poe1 and doesnt had the same amount of hours as i had to invest in a game . When they release the "early access" they did a perfect job with the game but sadly 0 work with how to explain it . So its a company problem all you mention not a gamer problem sorry to say that to you and bring you back to reallity but from lets say 100% of player base only the 15-20% has this amount of time to invest . So for what audience you made a game and how you will make the audience goes bigger ?

I would agree about "0 info for new players" for poe1, but for poe2 its just not true.

In poe 2, everything is explained, all you need to do is move mouse to that word/in-game term. Let's say you don't know what's penetration, you open tree, hover over penetration passive, then hover on "penetration" word and it literally says how exactly it works and what it is, literally for EVERYTHING in the game.

Open character tab, hover on resist, it says that normal cap is 75% but can go up to 90%, it says what both numbers for resists are.

EVERY SINGLE TERM IS EXPLAINED IN GAME.

But players are either too lazy to read, or too dumb to hover over text that has line under it.

Gearing in poe2 is much simpler than poe1. You play life character, get life, get resists, get strength, that's literally all. Play evasion? Get life, dex, reists, done. Play ES? Get es, int, resists, done. Play hybrid, stack both life/es, attributes if needed, and again, resists.

Weapons are even easier, because you can either compare numbers on two weapons, so bigger number better, or compare damage in skill gem menu.

Rarity is explained in game, just hover on it, it says what it does. Rarity is literally self explanatory like do you really need guide to understand that "rarity of items found" means that you find more rare items?

For monster damage, it usually indicated by color and sound, you can tell difference between cold, lightning, fire and chaos. You have to get all resists regardless. Phys damage is usually melee attacks or projectiles that don't have like color like elemental hits. GGG is not going to add entire poe2db into the game.

Do you think there's a single person that know every attack of every single mob? OFc not, because you don't need to. Or you want GGG to tell you everything that mob/boss does, so you like know everything about that boss before you ever faced it once? Its stupid.

If someone need explanation why they need to use tablets that basically say you get more loot, then its player issue understanding something this simple.

There is no best atlas, you read each passive, you choose if its good compare to others or not.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

what a backward, and just straight up untrue, post. You may not get as much loot as a streamer or more experienced / fleshed out character running less than giga-juiced maps, but it is by no means mandatory for progress.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Stop comparing yourself to the best possible scenario.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The goal isn't to learn every combo of rng, the amount of times the "perfect storm" you describe happens (or should be happening) is damn near negligible in the grand scheme of playing through the game.

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Echothesis#7320 wrote:

It would've been negligible if GGG didn't drag penalties with it, pretending they have carefully balanced soulslike gameplay, not an RNG mess.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

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Echothesis#7320 wrote:

It would've been negligible if GGG didn't drag penalties with it, pretending they have carefully balanced soulslike gameplay, not an RNG mess.

Indeed. I tried logic, but they can only reply with emotional gut feelings. Worse yet, it's that it's always only the players fault and game design can't be blamed. Considering how much PoE1 changed in favour of the players request, believing it will never do so in PoE2 is simply baffling.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Indeed. I tried logic, but they can only reply with emotional gut feelings. Worse yet, it's that it's always only the players fault and game design can't be blamed. Considering how much PoE1 changed in favour of the players request, believing it will never do so in PoE2 is simply baffling.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

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Echothesis#7320 wrote:

It would've been negligible if GGG didn't drag penalties with it, pretending they have carefully balanced soulslike gameplay, not an RNG mess.

Indeed. I tried logic, but they can only reply with emotional gut feelings. Worse yet, it's that it's always only the players fault and game design can't be blamed. Considering how much PoE1 changed in favour of the players request, believing it will never do so in PoE2 is simply baffling.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

If every time something goes wrong, you just say 'It’s your fault,' you’re ignoring the broader issue of game design. Some players might not mind the high stakes, but for others, it’s a frustrating experience that could easily be addressed by tweaking how failure impacts the player’s progression.

It's not about 'blaming' players for not being perfect; it’s about creating an environment where failure is a learning opportunity, not just a setback that makes people feel like they're being punished for every minor mistake. So, when you say 'It’s your fault,' it’s almost like you're shifting the blame onto the player, without recognizing that the design itself can sometimes create a cycle of frustration rather than growth.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

If every time something goes wrong, you just say 'It’s your fault,' you’re ignoring the broader issue of game design. Some players might not mind the high stakes, but for others, it’s a frustrating experience that could easily be addressed by tweaking how failure impacts the player’s progression.

It's not about 'blaming' players for not being perfect; it’s about creating an environment where failure is a learning opportunity, not just a setback that makes people feel like they're being punished for every minor mistake. So, when you say 'It’s your fault,' it’s almost like you're shifting the blame onto the player, without recognizing that the design itself can sometimes create a cycle of frustration rather than growth.

And yet the number of peopole who complain about One Portal by saying "I am an Elite Golden God of gaming, I have LITERALLY NEVER died to anything in Path of Exile except bullshit instant one-shots Nostradamus couldn't see coming! I don't deserve to lose my map because of GGG's dogshit balance!" is far, far, far greater than anyone arguing your point of constant stress.

Anyone who makes such an argument is a bullshitting blowhard that has no business talking on the Internet. You (generic 'you the audience', not Z3ro specifically) are not that fucking guy. You know GOOD GODDAMN WELL what killed you, it was not an Instant Bullshit One-Shot, and arguing that your status as an Elite Golden God of Gaming needs respecting by the game design is horse hockey.

It honestly reminds me of something I remember one of the Japanese devs of Tekken saying, when the latest Tekken came out. Modern fighting games and other competitive games which pit a single player against another single player are way less popular than they used to be because modern gamers have been trained by high-profile team games to blame anyone but themselves for their failures. It's always "The Team's Fault" you lost in those games, never your own, but when you win it's clearly because you yourself performed amazingly. It's apparently a real thing in development now - players in games without a 'Team' to insulate their egos have to eat the blame for their losses themselves and modern players have decided they don't like the taste of it.

It's another reason why Soulslikes get memed on in the broader gaming community - a good Soulslike makes it agonizingly clear that when you go down it's your own bleedin' fault, and there's a whole generation of modern gamers that cannot tolerate the taste of their own failures. They will blame everything prior to acknowledging that they biffed it, and there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Give those people six portals and when they burn up an entire level, drop back down a level, and fail to clear their six-portal map they will blame Bad Mob Balance for the problem just as much as they blame Bad Mob Balance for their deaths in One Portal; they'll just lose way more than if the game had cut them off after a single biff. Failure will never be "a learning experience" for those players because they categorically refuse to learn.

Now, I take your point about constant stress. That is literally the first time I've ever seen a valid argument against One Portal; that some players are wound too tight by the tension of knowing a single biff can cost them their waystone and that tension bleeds much of the fun out of the game. That could use a solve, but again - blowing up the entire PoE2 endgame and replacing it wholesale with PoE1's vastly inferior endgame is not a proper solve. There needs to be stakes for failure, and six portals is basically the same as infinite portals. I honestly like Jonathan's idea of being able to expend an additional Waystone to retry the map with all its mechanics and rewards intact, but I also understand the issue with people using that to manipulatively double (or more) their juicing on every single map they run by deliberately dying at the final critter and getting a free* retry.

I don't know what the proper solve is. I do know Six Portals fucking sucks. I love the One Portal system and the fact that it makes me play and fight like my existence actually matters instead of Betty Bigtits-ing my way around the place, but without the "whoops, your character's now gone forever" penalty of Hardcore. Sure, sometimes when I lose a map in a way I'm not fond of I'll put the game down for a while. That is perfectly okay. We're not Blizzard, who sees any possible moment of put-the-controller-down as a failure. Being dispirited by a moment of failure means you were invested in the hunt for success If failure doesn't hurt, then success was not worth achieving. That sense of success being worth achieving is so much stronger in PoE2 than it is in PoE1, and I'd be super upset to lose it.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

If every time something goes wrong, you just say 'It’s your fault,' you’re ignoring the broader issue of game design. Some players might not mind the high stakes, but for others, it’s a frustrating experience that could easily be addressed by tweaking how failure impacts the player’s progression.

It's not about 'blaming' players for not being perfect; it’s about creating an environment where failure is a learning opportunity, not just a setback that makes people feel like they're being punished for every minor mistake. So, when you say 'It’s your fault,' it’s almost like you're shifting the blame onto the player, without recognizing that the design itself can sometimes create a cycle of frustration rather than growth.

And yet the number of peopole who complain about One Portal by saying "I am an Elite Golden God of gaming, I have LITERALLY NEVER died to anything in Path of Exile except bullshit instant one-shots Nostradamus couldn't see coming! I don't deserve to lose my map because of GGG's dogshit balance!" is far, far, far greater than anyone arguing your point of constant stress.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

It's the softcore league. Seriously, for what purpose could it possibly serve to frustrate so many players by being so punitive?

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

That doesn't mean the vast majority of players have to be ok with so punitive a death penalty as we have right now in, once again, the god damned softcore league.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

how softcore league should not be punitive by its intended design (especially given PoE1's approach to Standard)

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

This random spiking is the biggest reason I gave up on hardcore years ago and is a top three reason why one-attempt maps needs to go in standard/softcore.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

One-attempt runs counter to the intended design philosophy behind softcore leagues.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

In the hundreds if not thousands of posts you've made so far asking the game to be made easier and less punitive, we have yet to see ONCE you admitting that you may not be as good as you think you are and that you do mistakes from time to time resulting in death by your own fault, and it isn't because of unseen effets and imbalanced damage .