Make ACTUAL ascendancy trials

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MakaveliPT#7753 wrote:

still would be a pile of trash.

Glad we agree in something.

Honestly if they're gonna copy+paste mechanics from PoE 1 into this game they might aswell just bring back the labyrinth exactly the same as it is in the other game. Maybe with some fancy graphics to match the rest of PoE 2.

These trials ain't it, and the 3rd one that's coming will possibly be even worse than Ultimatum or Sanctum. It's most likely gonna be ToTA, and if they actually copy that league mechanic it will be soooo bad.

The solution here is to just scrap current trials forever and bring back lab. Yes it's a waste of all the dev time put into them but that's what happens when you over-design a game and change things just for the sake of changing them.

The actual trials are bad, not debate on that.

I was one of the firsts to ask to bring Lab/Izaro back, but let take a step back and understand that they won't scrap what is in place and do any radical changes. Is GGG, we sadly know the Vision can't be stopped (maybe Tencent can armstrong and put a glass on it).

So, feedback...

Sekhemas

Make the Trials a continuation.

If the player already completed Floor 1, it becomes optional to do it again when trying a new high level Barya - the ones that indicates that it will award ascendency points.

So, next time already start on Floor 2.

If the player already completed Floors 1 and 2, both becomes optional to do again when using a high level Barya - if it indicates that it will award ascendency points.

So, next time already start on Floor 3.


Chaos

Just give one up side to down sides from each challenge.

Ex. Time Paradox - Debuffs last longer and buff expires faster, mobs have less 10% movement, cast and attack speed

Little things that can go a long way to make the experience better.

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Bacon_Overlord#1834 wrote:

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JinglyGoo#7140 wrote:

Its funny because reasons you outlined as bad and unfun in PoE2 are the reasons why I and many people love this game, and enjoy it so much more than the bland D4 experience. XP penalties, campaign levelling, respec costs, weight of loot and decisions is what makes this a game we coming back to every season etc... Given that you have such strong dislike for so many core systems of PoE perhaps D4 is more of a game for you. Thats not been elitist its just common sense, different things for different people.

I personally have really enjoyed the ascendancy revamp in PoE2, and once more polish and variety is introduced, very happy for the system to be in place long term. Same with the current quality of the campaign, if you think grinding helltides to 60/infinity is more fun than we are just never going to agree here.

Keep doing what you are doing GGG, im sure by release we ll have a close if not better contender to the first game.

You lost me at "ascendancy revamp".

In fact, it kind of painted you to be a troll and I couldn't take you seriously at all.

I am sorry but having a different opinion to you doesnt make me a troll or wrong for that matter. Its all subjective, and you arent going to get any traction with your feedback if you are unable to at least understand other points of views.

In regards to the "revamp" what else would you call it? We will have at least 3 ways of ascending now to give players more options than ever to choose their preffered path. Do those options need polish and iteration? Absolutely, but the core of the design is so much better than before. Lets see how GGG addresses the issues and evolution with the ascendancy systems over the next few months. Keep the hyperbole and toys to the reddit threads and lets stay objective here.

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JinglyGoo#7140 wrote:

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Bacon_Overlord#1834 wrote:

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JinglyGoo#7140 wrote:

Its funny because reasons you outlined as bad and unfun in PoE2 are the reasons why I and many people love this game, and enjoy it so much more than the bland D4 experience. XP penalties, campaign levelling, respec costs, weight of loot and decisions is what makes this a game we coming back to every season etc... Given that you have such strong dislike for so many core systems of PoE perhaps D4 is more of a game for you. Thats not been elitist its just common sense, different things for different people.

I personally have really enjoyed the ascendancy revamp in PoE2, and once more polish and variety is introduced, very happy for the system to be in place long term. Same with the current quality of the campaign, if you think grinding helltides to 60/infinity is more fun than we are just never going to agree here.

Keep doing what you are doing GGG, im sure by release we ll have a close if not better contender to the first game.

You lost me at "ascendancy revamp".

In fact, it kind of painted you to be a troll and I couldn't take you seriously at all.

I am sorry but having a different opinion to you doesnt make me a troll or wrong for that matter. Its all subjective, and you arent going to get any traction with your feedback if you are unable to at least understand other points of views.

In regards to the "revamp" what else would you call it? We will have at least 3 ways of ascending now to give players more options than ever to choose their preffered path. Do those options need polish and iteration? Absolutely, but the core of the design is so much better than before. Lets see how GGG addresses the issues and evolution with the ascendancy systems over the next few months. Keep the hyperbole and toys to the reddit threads and lets stay objective here.

Sorry, I said "troll" because you actually said the ascendancy was "revamped" instead of just thrown together like they did in POE 1.

It has literally nothing to do with anyone's build and everyone is supposed to get through it the same way regardless of their build, class, ascendancy, etc.

It's lazy development, just like it was in POE 1.

Anytime you see "RNG" having such a significant impact on someone's chances to get through a "trial"... yeah, that's lazy development. Instead of creating those challenges in a balanced way they can just blame "RNG".

Ok, so you main issue with it is the RNG. I mean you aren't wrong with the ultimatum trials its indeed pure RNG, but does that make it inherently a bad system? While the lows of getting a bad run suck, getting good mods actually feel good. Its a kind of a feeling you get in roguelike games and why they are so popular. I think its fine locking 2nd ascendancy behind it where the game isn't too punishing yet, but I wouldn't necessarily be against ascendancy points being removed from it altogether. In my personal opinion ultimatum needs to be far more rewards for the high to offset the lows. Its up for discussion whether positive mods should be allowed to be chosen.

I would say however that Sanctum is a great way to ascend and a much improved way than doing the lab. Lab never felt worth it and at a time when you are doing the lab trials, the returns from it were basically 0, no loot. That is not the case with the Trails of Sekhema as you do get some nice drops here and there, as well as getting relics ready for the T4 runs. Now the first ascendancy points are basically free - anyone on any build with no prep should be able to do it easily. IF you can kill an act boss you can do a floor or two. T4 trial needs balancing but I personally quite enjoy the "feel" of sanctum and the RNG of the runs.

Question you are probably asking is whether failing runs for ascendancy points is good for the game or players experience and time investment? Again it comes down to preference, personally I find it far more engaging with a feeling of actual achievement completing a run. Contrary I was so incredibly bored collecting all the druid spirts and what not in D4 I just cannot believe people prefer that method to this.

Again, im not saying that the current ascendancy system is there or even in a place where its "good". All im saying its a vast improvement over PoE1 and games like D4 (class quests etc..) It needs a lot of work, perhaps big changes here or there but the core design is very good.

Finally i know a lot of people dont like labyrinth/traps type of gameplay and I get that, hopefully the third way of ascending will cater to those players. However devolving to class quest style systems for ascendancy points is not it and a backwards game design.

Lets try and figure out ways of improving player experience and current systems and provide feedback on that, rather than advocating for deleting parts of the game in Early Access.

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Fhrek#4437 wrote:

The actual trials are bad, not debate on that.

I was one of the firsts to ask to bring Lab/Izaro back, but let take a step back and understand that they won't scrap what is in place and do any radical changes. Is GGG, we sadly know the Vision can't be stopped (maybe Tencent can armstrong and put a glass on it).

So, feedback...

Sekhemas

Make the Trials a continuation.

If the player already completed Floor 1, it becomes optional to do it again when trying a new high level Barya - the ones that indicates that it will award ascendency points.

So, next time already start on Floor 2.

If the player already completed Floors 1 and 2, both becomes optional to do again when using a high level Barya - if it indicates that it will award ascendency points.

So, next time already start on Floor 3.


Chaos

Just give one up side to down sides from each challenge.

Ex. Time Paradox - Debuffs last longer and buff expires faster, mobs have less 10% movement, cast and attack speed

Little things that can go a long way to make the experience better.

Your idea kind of invalidates the point and challenge behind Sekhema. It's about attrition, if you just skip to floor 4 then you get to start it at full strength instead of possibly being weaker because of earlier choices.

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Karr285#4892 wrote:

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Mordgier#6997 wrote:

There is supposed to be a 3rd way to get points in the final version of the game - no idea what it'll be yet, but hopefully it's less tedious than the current options.

I shudder to think what horrible 3rd hated league mechanic gets chosen for this...

It's going to be blight. RETURNS TO ASH!~

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

Your idea kind of invalidates the point and challenge behind Sekhema. It's about attrition, if you just skip to floor 4 then you get to start it at full strength instead of possibly being weaker because of earlier choices.

So you got the gist of the idea. Thanks!

Let's be honest, is no attriction, is a slog.

Running around for 40 to 50 minutes with 4 boss fights in between.

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Fhrek#4437 wrote:

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

Your idea kind of invalidates the point and challenge behind Sekhema. It's about attrition, if you just skip to floor 4 then you get to start it at full strength instead of possibly being weaker because of earlier choices.

So you got the gist of the idea. Thanks!

Would you like an "I Win" button to go along with that? If you want easy games that require basically no effort there are plenty of other options out there for you.