Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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PhillipBurns#5461 wrote:

Every league I've played I get to a point where I don't have the time to invest in pushing my character through hours and hours of endless grinding. Having to rotate between breaches, delve, rotas etc etc is extremely time consuming; not really difficult, just time consuming. Once I can clear end game maps with no issue; it simply becomes a time issue for me to push any further for higher levels.

I almost never have the time to do this past level 90ish ; so I simply don't care about it at that point and become even more "casual" - but that leaves me in a weird spot - there is a level 100 but I don't have the time to get to it in most leagues - Yes, I can still do pretty much all of the content by that point - but then why have a level 100?

I ask myself, if I didn't lose exp on every death, would I even get past my normal breaking point? Will I still even have the time to reach level 100? I'm honestly not sure. And again, I assume most players fall into the category of time constraints & choosing to simply stop trying because it's futile - ultimately, I will stop playing once the league has run its course if getting to level 100 from level 90 takes me the same amount of time it took me to get to level 90, without any deaths.

I think exp penalty will get balanced, and probably not in the form of removing it. But if it's balanced in the same way path of exile 1 is - I will still most likely not get to 100 in any given league. What is the philosophy on having a level 100 if most people don't obtain that point each league?

From a business perspective, when they lose me as a player at that point - Then the less time I spend looking at my character the less I'm going to spend my money in the game. I do enjoy the game so much I choose to do this, but I know for a fact I personally would spend more money in a game I'm spending most of my time in.

With all of that being said, it's early access and I'm confident GGG is going to continue to work out the kinks currently in the game as well as future ones. I just wanted to add my two cents regarding level 100 and exp penalties.

TLDR ; I think getting to max level is optional, however should be obtainable in every league for players who can maybe at most spend a couple hours a day playing.

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fnsonin#2863 wrote:

POE2 is supposed to be GGG and Tencent's break out game for a larger audience. Well, the larger audience is speaking and they do not like -10% experience loss on death, one portal maps, long runbacks to bosses, and sudden non telegraphed deaths.
Compare this to Elden Ring/Dark Souls:
1. your "experience" is on the ground waiting for you to pick it up
2. You are never locked out from a boss fight
3. Elden Ring got rid of long run backs and was the best selling souls game of all time
4. I always knew how and why I died in Dark Souls/Elden Ring.

If GGG/Tencent wants to have a large audience and play with the big boys, then they will make a game that most people enjoy and not a beat for beat homage to a 20 year old game that has now obvious flaws compared to modern ARPGs.

This is early access, what GGG does to fix the endgame will determine the ultimate size of the player base they want to have.

The vast majority of players are not having fun in the endgame.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

its a grinding game, from grinding gear games. to say you dont want to endless grind for hours is funny, dont do it then if its not fun for you. its fine.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

you say its a time issue, not a skill issue. there are people lvl 100 in the first days. youre playing until lvl 90, then there is no time. okay, strange but okay.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

the philosophy is because gaining levels and getting stronger is the core of an rpg. would you like the level cap to be lvl 90? the next one says he barely can get past 80, so lets reduce cap to 80. why dont delete levels entirely?
you cant say you want the maximum out of something if you dont want to invest into it.
from a business perspective, i bet there are more people quitting the league after reaching their goals (lvl 100, etc.) then befor. if you got everything you can get and cant level further or getting stronger, youre game over. thats why it takes time to get there.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Negative feedback could be :

"I think the ratio of time spent in maps for this amount of XP in opposition to the risks taken while fighting occasional Uber bosses is slighlty off ; resulting in a much harder leveling for the last 5-10 levels while mainly playing a balanced hybrid defence/offence build in magic to rare maps, with 2-4 affixes, between t12 and t16."


But instead we have :

"Remove XP penalty, it's useless and I hate it. GGG makes all of us lose our time. I can't progress with my glasscanon, I get one shoted by white mobs from offscreen in T18 fully juiced WTF, losing my citadel, map, and all my XP earned in a full week on top of it. It's a trash game, dead in one week time for sure. I'll sue you for wasting my precious time. Freaking no-lives hc egomaniacs elitists ruined again a great casual game with 50yo dumb mecanics. Please nerffff".


Go figure.

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PhillipBurns#5461 wrote:

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

its a grinding game, from grinding gear games. to say you dont want to endless grind for hours is funny, dont do it then if its not fun for you. its fine.

Yeah mate, that was my logic - I don't have the time to grind anymore for the goal I have, because it's futile. The difference from no deaths and deaths can quickly add up to dozens of more hours play time.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

you say its a time issue, not a skill issue. there are people lvl 100 in the first days. youre playing until lvl 90, then there is no time. okay, strange but okay.

Yeah, those people obviously have more than 2 hours a day to play. You can literally watch them as they will most likely be streaming. League launch events are a real thing for those players and they take full advantage of it, given their availability

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

the philosophy is because gaining levels and getting stronger is the core of an rpg. would you like the level cap to be lvl 90? the next one says he barely can get past 80, so lets reduce cap to 80. why dont delete levels entirely?
you cant say you want the maximum out of something if you dont want to invest into it.
from a business perspective, i bet there are more people quitting the league after reaching their goals (lvl 100, etc.) then befor. if you got everything you can get and cant level further or getting stronger, youre game over. thats why it takes time to get there.

If a level 85 - 90 can clear the end game content, then I guess I'm asking, why the wall is so massive for the last 10 levels, for the average person who can't play a video game all day. This is in the context of a limited timed league..

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Oh I'm ready to meet GGG in the middle, I ve made some propositions on previous posts.

In a same fashion I can say :

We could have : you know what guys, I disagree with you but I understand that it is your opinion and it's understandable from your point of view so I'll make another thread with my own feedback saying that XP penalty is essential and everybody that agrees with me will post there.

But instead we have : omg all arpg have penalty XP, it's essential all veterans know that, you guys want to click one button and finish the game, with no XP penalty even my grandma will kill Ubers. I'm selling Uber kills to people who are afraid of dying plz don't take away my business. What don't you play another game like D4, lvl 100 is just an achievement, it's not meant for everyone, just for me, etc etc

Go figure

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Hyperspacing#5593 wrote:

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Valsacar#0268 wrote:

Ah, then we're all good there since you don't lose 15% xp when you die in POE1 or in POE2.

It's pretty telling about how far someone has played when they can't even get that simple part correct.

you do know its 15% or close to that right? Im clearing t15 maps and dying maybe once ever 25-30 maps bro wtf lol

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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Vinsdvalh#0247 wrote:

Oh I'm ready to meet GGG in the middle, I ve made some propositions on previous posts.

In a same fashion I can say :

We could have : you know what guys, I disagree with you but I understand that it is your opinion and it's understandable from your point of view so I'll make another thread with my own feedback saying that XP penalty is essential and everybody that agrees with me will post there.

But instead we have : omg all arpg have penalty XP, it's essential all veterans know that, you guys want to click one button and finish the game, with no XP penalty even my grandma will kill Ubers. I'm selling Uber kills to people who are afraid of dying plz don't take away my business. What don't you play another game like D4, lvl 100 is just an achievement, it's not meant for everyone, just for me, etc etc

Go figure

You try to be smart but you don't get it at all.

People accepting XP penalty don't need to make their own posts approving its existence as it's just the REALITY of what PoE2's endgame is about. It wouldn't be feedback as nothing constructive would be said.

Meanwhile, people asking for a plain removal of XP penalty are refusing REALITY and asking for fundamental changes to the core designs because they can't deal with it. It's not feedback, it's venting anger and frustration while blaming the game for their failures, while also failing to understand the meaning and the reasons of its existence.

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

because the last levels are fully optional. if they were mandatory, it would be easier to reach for sure. thats some extra levels for the people that want to grind them. if you want to invest more, there is more. same as maps. if you want to invest and juice more, you get more in return.

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PhillipBurns#5461 wrote:

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Pl4t1numX#4325 wrote:

because the last levels are fully optional. if they were mandatory, it would be easier to reach for sure. thats some extra levels for the people that want to grind them. if you want to invest more, there is more. same as maps. if you want to invest and juice more, you get more in return.

Okay, that was the point I made in the TLDR. It's optional but there are walls preventing a portion of the player base reaching it. If it's optional and doesn't impact anything then why not take down some of those walls, for the players who don't play 3, 4 , 5+ hours a day?