Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

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maquino85#7657 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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maquino85#7657 wrote:

What is your feedback?

That death is important in a video game.
That death penalties are important in a great video game.
GGG makes great games.

What's your feedback ???

Good feedback. Your job here is done.

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Cequel1129#6191 wrote:

In Elden Ring, players have died to Malenia, Blade of Miquella, more than 300 million times:
Attempts to defeat Malenia: Players have initiated over 329 million fights with Malenia
Total deaths in the game: Bandai Namco confirmed that there have been over nine billion deaths in the game

Id say thats pretty rewarding and challenging. Sorry but xp loss if nothing but an artificial time sink. Everyone on these forums that defends 1 portal or xp loss seems to think people complaining about that are dying a shit ton. That doesnt seem to be the case. Its playing for hours and then having 1 or 2 bad maps and negating all gains for previous few hours.

[...]

Wanna do new pinnacle boss, do maps for days finally find a citadel and cant fuck it up cause 1 screw up and days worht of mapping gone. Then do this 3 times and you get 1 shot at pinnacle boss. Play hardcore for this type of content, not worth when you get to play mostly on weekends.

You find that rewarding and challenging play hardcore or maybe GGG should have a toggle on map device for that option and you get 10% more quant in maps.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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Cequel1129#6191 wrote:

Took me 2 weekends to kill Malenia. I never felt "punished for dying".

Ok... And ?
7.5 million people killed Malenia.
Is that feally rewarding and challenging ?

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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Cequel1129#6191 wrote:

Took me 2 weekends to kill Malenia. I never felt "punished for dying".

Ok... And ?
7.5 million people killed Malenia.
Is that feally rewarding and challenging ?

It's baffling to imagine what you might consider a challenge to be. She's a difficult boss in the game not everyone beats and breaks some rules of the game so yeah for a lot of people she is challenging and thus it feels rewarding to beat her, you also get a cool weapon for it.

I guess the game needs an invisible teleporting boss that oneshots you that barely anyone beats because that is "a challenge".
You should probably take a step back and think about what a healthy challenge is.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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Cequel1129#6191 wrote:

In Elden Ring, players have died to Malenia, Blade of Miquella, more than 300 million times:
Attempts to defeat Malenia: Players have initiated over 329 million fights with Malenia
Total deaths in the game: Bandai Namco confirmed that there have been over nine billion deaths in the game

Id say thats pretty rewarding and challenging. Sorry but xp loss if nothing but an artificial time sink. Everyone on these forums that defends 1 portal or xp loss seems to think people complaining about that are dying a shit ton. That doesnt seem to be the case. Its playing for hours and then having 1 or 2 bad maps and negating all gains for previous few hours.

[...]

Wanna do new pinnacle boss, do maps for days finally find a citadel and cant fuck it up cause 1 screw up and days worht of mapping gone. Then do this 3 times and you get 1 shot at pinnacle boss. Play hardcore for this type of content, not worth when you get to play mostly on weekends.

You find that rewarding and challenging play hardcore or maybe GGG should have a toggle on map device for that option and you get 10% more quant in maps.

Throwing infinite dead bodies at a boss from the door isn't really the definition of rewarding. As I said, 35% of elden rings players beat it. Just a matter of time. You can even try it blindfolded and it would eventually work. That's not challenging. Unless you think Geonor from Act1 is a rewarding challenge. Nah, it's a baseline.

PoE2 is designed to have punitive deaths. You play knowing it. Therefor, dying isn't a loss of time, it's a part of the game.
Everything can be a loss of time with the right (or wrong) mindset. If you feel like you are losing your time because you play a game -with all its features-, then maybe the problem isn't one part of its design, but You playing it as a whole in the first place. The game doesn't negate time. That's not how Time works. Try having fun everytime you play and no time is ever wasted.

Hardcore is something different. Don't compare softcore where chain-deaths barely matters to losing your whole char from one single death. That's presposterous ; just try once the hardcore experience and you'll see the enormous difference.

You want a video game that doesn't punish you with any lack of attention, skill, or build logic. Those game do exists. D4 is one of them. It's fun, well done, and -for me- not challenging nor rewarding. Have you tried those ? ; instead of trying to change a rewarding and challenging game into something it's not ?

PoE2 was designed that way. Do you think it was an accident ? It was made like that on purpose ; for reasons. I understand the purpose and the reasons ; they make sense ; giving value to Life, defenses, and balanced builds. Not dying means something even in softcore. Do you understand why it's made like that ?

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

You exposed how little you understand about what a game or a challenge is, you merely want to feel superior to compensate for a subjectively perceived shortcoming. A challenge is meant to be beaten and encourage players to try and beat it. You do that by incentivizing rewards. You have infinite tries in this case but you do not gain anything from losing, there are players who were never able to beat her.
Losing 2+ hours of progress to a death which can even happen from off screen stunlock effects is perceived, and is, unfair and has a detrimental psychological effect where you do not see anything you could have done different without divine clairvoyance where as the example used, Elden Ring, shows the player their mistakes by their own observation and thus they can learn from it.
Saying chain deaths barely matter is a gross misunderstanding, either willfully or unknowingly, of the subject matter where it can be argued that you do not even know what you yourself are talking about, you're just trying to portray your opinion as that of a pr0 gamer who needs a challenge. How about you compete with others then, reach legend in SF6 for starters or maybe something like challenger in league? You must love a challenge after all.

You also said that people play PoE2 knowing of the death mechanics yet that is evidently untrue by the quantity of negative feedback on death mechanics including a recurring point of "I thought death penalties were removed". You are not introduced to them either during the part the majority of the playerbase will play and as such will be an extreme obstacle that will ultimately lead to failure of converting campaign players to returning league players going into the end game where the league mechanics will exist. Congratulations, now GGG has spent a lot of resources to update a second game for the same 10-15k players that already play PoE1. Just by that you know that what you say is ridiculous.
"The game doesn't negate time" is a stupid statement, the psychological effect of loss is real and one of the biggest recorded reasons for a player to not return, not just in video games, loss aversion and the fear of loss is real and saying these things are beneficial for a consumer product is laughable, you cannot try to make a mockery out of you any harder than you are doing.
Players who want to be challenged should be given the avenue to do so, well there is for example hardcore, but forcing everyone into it is detrimental to the overall success of the game.
I was a child once so I know what a false sense of pride is. "I did it so others must as well!" is infantile reasoning.

Here's a fun thing as well - SC deaths are worse than HC because people who play HC enjoy the thrill of narrowly avoiding death and they accept the penalties. It is part of the enjoyment of HC, some repeatedly use different builds to see how far they come.
SC players can have less knowledge, skill or any other aspect deemed important but may also spend less time, forcing these mechanics on them is worse than anything HC experiences (outside of dying to server lag etc, outside of the player control. Naturally.).

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I don't need to compensate for anything as I used to be a GrandMaster on highly competitive games and do LAN international tournaments, almost 20 years ago.
I know what a challenge is, thank you very much.

Now I'm an old fart, but I'm sure glad not to be an entitled snowflake whining about the difficulty of a PvE game and I sure enjoy seeing GGG having the balls to release a good ol' game that punish failure.

Now you claim that softcore deaths are more punitive than HC. Yeah... Ok. Here, have a cookie.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I don't need to compensate for anything as I used to be a GrandMaster on highly competitive games and do LAN international tournaments, almost 20 years ago.
I know what a challenge is, thank you very much.

Now I'm an old fart, but I'm sure glad not to be an entitled snowflake whining about the difficulty of a PvE game and I sure enjoy seeing GGG having the balls to release a good ol' game that punish failure.

Now you claim that softcore deaths are more punitive than HC. Yeah... Ok. Here, have a cookie.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

I don't need to compensate for anything as I used to be a GrandMaster on highly competitive games and do LAN international tournaments, almost 20 years ago.
I know what a challenge is, thank you very much.

Now I'm an old fart, but I'm sure glad not to be an entitled snowflake whining about the difficulty of a PvE game and I sure enjoy seeing GGG having the balls to release a good ol' game that punish failure.

Now you claim that softcore deaths are more punitive than HC. Yeah... Ok. Here, have a cookie.