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no, not every somehwat functional build should be able to reach max lvl, clearly no. if everybody can get 100 easily, whats the achievement then getting there? if your build sucks and you are stuck on lvl 92 because of it, you deserve to be stuck on lvl 92. deal with it or make a better character.
There's that "reaching 100 is/should be an achievement" argument. No, it isn't. The average casual does not care about ladders or how long someone grinded to get to 100. If your build is bad dying is already bad enough, the game does not need extra penalties. Dying already feels bad enough, how is this so hard to understand? Do you enjoy games that just punish you for no reason? Because most people don't. Which is why threads like this exist and keep popping up for years.
exactly, the average does not care about ladder. and he wont reach 100 with or without xp loss. the whole "casual" argument is bs. poe was never a game for casuals, its a neverending grind and it will be grind forever. i dont know why its always casuals want this and casuals want that and casuals dont like these things. who cares? it was never a game for casuals, why would they change the game to an audience the game isnt there for?
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Posted byPl4t1numX#4325on Dec 25, 2024, 8:17:31 PM
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Some of the more popular real roguelikes like tome4 have modes where you have extra lives or basically no permadeath on your character. Alternatively there are more popular mods to the basegame. Weird that you forget to mention that, lack any kind of argument in favor of xp penalties, or death penalties.
PoE2 has place for real roguelike modes for level 100 characters as a real end game, make it optional. Not everyone likes it.
weird that you forget to mention that mods are not official game features.
Dota was not an official game mode and see what happened to that mod.
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Posted byBK2710#6123on Dec 25, 2024, 8:17:38 PM
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no, not every somehwat functional build should be able to reach max lvl, clearly no. if everybody can get 100 easily, whats the achievement then getting there? if your build sucks and you are stuck on lvl 92 because of it, you deserve to be stuck on lvl 92. deal with it or make a better character.
Level 100 is not an achievement, you simply grind level 82 enemies for miniscule xp for eternity. No one sees it as an achievement.
Gating it is nothing else than a tiny fraction of the playerbase, speed levelers and hardcore poe players, saying that everyone has to respect them reaching 100 when in reality most don't even see it that way. You are expected to reach max level in a rpg, if you cannot then there is no point to playing. If anything, it is weird if you do not reach 100 that means you quit somewhere during the game.
If you reach level 100 in hardcore then probs to you, that is cool. Softcore? No one cares. People seeing it as an achievement there are simply pretending they did something but do not actually want to play hardcore so they defend mechanics that make it so people worse than them can never reach their "achievement".
Not exactly a strong argument to defend it.
Making all these penalties optional (opt in) for extra rewards like more xp etc is simply superior. If you care for reaching 100 faster than others then playing with these penalties is optimal, and everyone who cares for it is affected by it. Simple really.
Exactly, +1000
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Posted byToforto#2372on Dec 25, 2024, 8:19:15 PM
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no, not every somehwat functional build should be able to reach max lvl, clearly no. if everybody can get 100 easily, whats the achievement then getting there? if your build sucks and you are stuck on lvl 92 because of it, you deserve to be stuck on lvl 92. deal with it or make a better character.
There's that "reaching 100 is/should be an achievement" argument. No, it isn't. The average casual does not care about ladders or how long someone grinded to get to 100. If your build is bad dying is already bad enough, the game does not need extra penalties. Dying already feels bad enough, how is this so hard to understand? Do you enjoy games that just punish you for no reason? Because most people don't. Which is why threads like this exist and keep popping up for years.
exactly, the average does not care about ladder. and he wont reach 100 with or without xp loss. the whole "casual" argument is bs. poe was never a game for casuals, its a neverending grind and it will be grind forever. i dont know why its always casuals want this and casuals want that and casuals dont like these things. who cares? it was never a game for casuals, why would they change the game to an audience the game isnt there for?
PoE is about as casual as you can make a game. It is an arpg about blowing stuff up with ever bigger numbers. The origin of the genre is a miniature dnd campaign. Do you even know what you are talking about? Go play a real competitive game rather than pretending that a game that advertises itself as a "build your own character" is not casual. Casuals also fill GGG's wallet, if progressing is fun and people can enjoy the league mechanics and attempt the end game bosses if they want to challenge themselves (or other endgame modes would love to see more than 4 floor sanctum or whatever really) then that is even better.
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Posted byBK2710#6123on Dec 25, 2024, 8:20:13 PM
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You are expected to reach max level in a rpg, if you cannot then there is no point to playing.
thats bs. for many many years nearly nobody in poe1 got to 100, it was an endless hard grind. thats why every build guide is capped at about 92. and no, its not expected in poe2 to get to 100, not at all. if you want this game to be like that, its the wrong game for you, that easy.
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Posted byPl4t1numX#4325on Dec 25, 2024, 8:21:42 PM
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Some of the more popular real roguelikes like tome4 have modes where you have extra lives or basically no permadeath on your character. Alternatively there are more popular mods to the basegame. Weird that you forget to mention that, lack any kind of argument in favor of xp penalties, or death penalties.
PoE2 has place for real roguelike modes for level 100 characters as a real end game, make it optional. Not everyone likes it.
weird that you forget to mention that mods are not official game features.
Dota was not an official game mode and see what happened to that mod.
dota is rouge-like?
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Posted byAintCare#6513on Dec 25, 2024, 8:22:02 PM
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Which is why threads like this exist and keep popping up for years.
Not, threads like this exist because angry and frustrated players need to complain somewhere about the game being to difficult for them, to pat their egos with other people struggling too.
When I die in a video game, it's my fault, I sucked, and I accept the consequences.
When you die in a video game, it's bugged, laggy, unfair, and the consequences are undeserved torture.
We are not the same.
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Posted bydwqrf#0717on Dec 25, 2024, 8:23:05 PM
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thats bs. for many many years nearly nobody in poe1 got to 100, it was an endless hard grind. thats why every build guide is capped at about 92. and no, its not expected in poe2 to get to 100, not at all. if you want this game to be like that, its the wrong game for you, that easy.
PoE2 is not PoE1. Go play PoE1 if you want the same challenge. PoE2 is made to be different than 1 and both will be developed alongside each other. If anything this weakens pro death penalties arguments even further.
PoE2 leans in harder in boss and encounter design so clearly the way to go in line with PoE2's goals is more challenging encounters (long gauntlet challenges, hard dungeons and what not).
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Posted byBK2710#6123on Dec 25, 2024, 8:23:35 PM
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You simply cared about something being official or not. Players modify or make things they enjoy and sometimes it just so happens that a large audience likes it. If roguelikes or roguelites specifically, there are a lot of huge mods for those. I mean despite the horrendous updates to for example stonesoup that thing has so many branches for different audiences by now it just highlights this even more.
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Posted byBK2710#6123on Dec 25, 2024, 8:24:55 PM
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Which is why threads like this exist and keep popping up for years.
Not, threads like this exist because angry and frustrated players need to complain somewhere about the game being to difficult for them, to pat their egos with other people struggling too.
When I die in a video game, it's my fault, I sucked, and I accept the consequences.
When you die in a video game, it's bugged, laggy, unfair, and the consequences are undeserved torture.
We are not the same.
You're the one inflating your own ego by defending bad game design lmao
The exp loss doesn't encourage players to do anything except despair.
The exp loss also does not make the game more difficult, only wastes your time and makes it more tedious. If you think PoE 2 is "difficult" no it isn't, it's just tedious,boring and overly punishing. You can get off your "self improvement mentality" high horse now.
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Posted byToforto#2372on Dec 25, 2024, 8:25:38 PM
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