Exp loss on death topics are getting out of hand.

What I’m trying to say is - if you remove all consequence - progression becomes inevitable- thus trivializing the game. I’m not saying that one death mechanic is the solution but there inherently has to be some layer of consequence and regression to maintain challenge and depth.

One pentaly for death? Would say fine, but whats the point stacking them? xp loss, map loss, failed to collect loot loss in the heat of a battle, bonuses on nodes loss like bosses,ritual etc. If a penalty makes you think , does stacking them makes you super think? What fun they add, what makes them gameplay wise good? If the lack of immidiate punishment makes game trivial does all soulslike game where you have a chance to get back your progress and lose way less are trivial and require no thinking?

Also in these topics some of the arguments are a bit funny.
We would like more portal -> No this is poe 2 accept it that it is different!
We would like no xp pentalty, which is different than poe 1 -> No this was like that in poe 1 and in some other game too, it should not change.

Real easy solution for this, OP: remove the death penalty from both PoE 1 and PoE 2.

FromSoftware is no stranger to XP loss on death and resetting zone progression.

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N3vangel#0037 wrote:

What I’m trying to say is - if you remove all consequence - progression becomes inevitable- thus trivializing the game. I’m not saying that one death mechanic is the solution but there inherently has to be some layer of consequence and regression to maintain challenge and depth.

The exp penalty doesn't make maps harder though, it doesn't make progression any more special. It does the opposite, it causes this emerging gameplay meta of players doing safe,boring low-level content until they level up and then at 0% exp they attempt harder content like bosses.(this also happens in PoE 1)

The game wouldn't be trivialized at all if it had no death penalties lol, its still challenging and GGG can still make deep progression systems in leagues and in the atlas. Like think about when Sirus came out in Metamorph, would it really give you that much more of a sense of achievement if you had lost 80% exp while farming conquerors to get your first Sirus awakening lvl0 kill? Not really.. it would have just annoyed you that you lost a bunch of exp and have to farm more maps to level up.

And allowing more casual players to get 3-4 more skill points over a long period of time won't break the game's balance, they won't suddenly be able to do uber bosses or anything. It will take some literal months to reach high levels even without exp loss, why can't we just let people have fun with the game instead of taking away all the time they invested?

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N3vangel#0037 wrote:

What I’m trying to say is - if you remove all consequence - progression becomes inevitable- thus trivializing the game. I’m not saying that one death mechanic is the solution but there inherently has to be some layer of consequence and regression to maintain challenge and depth.

It's not a zero-sum game with the exp loss removed. When you die, you still lose stuff in this game, bosses reset, loot vanishes, portal vanishes.

The only thing the exp-loss does is to ensure that people who want to level are going to pick the easiest most boring content possible and run that to death, rather than actually engage with their intended content.

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DarkNoob216#0558 wrote:

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MrPedez#4934 wrote:

Xp loss is never going to be removed, it has always been part of this game and many other arpg's and its perfectly fine and prevents people from going Zhp glasscannon fastest way to lvl 100. Not exactly casual dad friendly but perfectly fine as it is and makes people think about their build decisions and playstyle and its really not that big of a deal since its pretty ez to reach lvl 90 ish even with the xp penalty and to be honest u dont need more lvls, they are just icing on the cake. So i would say it does add something to the game

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its perfectly fine and prevents people from going Zhp glasscannon fastest way to lvl 100.

You can pretty much do 0hp glasscannon in POE1. Because everything one-shots you without knowing how most of the time anyway. And I bet these builds POE2 will appear soon enough for POE2 (If they haven't already.)
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It's not the end of the world if it's not removed. I just fail to understand the thought process for the XP-loss, I get everyone plays differently, but why keep such thing? Just because it has always been part of the game, does not mean it can't change. That's what the early access is for.

Besides, if you ask me, XP loss should not be what makes you consider your build/decisions.
It should be how well you perform using your desired playstyle. If it's not working, you will notice easily by most likely dying. What you do next? Re-evaluate your build and adapt while maintaining your desired playstyle.

You can do this without the fear of xp-loss. There is no need for this system to make you "think". The game will let you know by itself, which is why this system I think this whole mechanic is pointless.

U wont reach lvl 100 these days in poe 1 with a full glasscannon thats for sure. I have roughly 15k hours of poe 1 gameplay and made several builds that can breeze through some of the hardest content poe 1 has to offer without getting oneshot, even builds that can facetank uber boss slams np and i can tell u there are way more occasional oneshots in poe 2 than poe 1 thats for sure and the mitigation scaling options are way worse than poe 1. In fact i would recommend any armour build to use a cloak of flame instead cause it will give u way more phys damage reduction than any armour u can scale from tree without spending a single node if u just max ur fire res.
Sure u might find some phd 200 iq basement dweller with ninja reflexes and way too much spare time who can pull it of but even he can do it faster with a more tanky top tier meta build

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N3vangel#0037 wrote:

FromSoftware is no stranger to XP loss on death and resetting zone progression.

That exp loss doesn't set you back hours. And if you were to accidentally scew up, you can still get the exp back.

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What I’m trying to say is - if you remove all consequence - progression becomes inevitable- thus trivializing the game. I’m not saying that one death mechanic is the solution but there inherently has to be some layer of consequence and regression to maintain challenge and depth.

That is true.

There is plenty of other consequence in the game, like spending currency poorly. Buying bad gear, losing portals (Although that one pisses me off), losing loot on death....(That's atleast 2 consequences in endgame not counting xp-loss)

I think the game will survive without that system, and if they REALLY want to keep it, then they should scale it down based on level atleast. Just so it's there but not frustrating and discouraging.

If you mean by "PoE2 is meant to be a different game" you mean that armor and life is strictly worse than ES, crafting is absolutely worse, MF is completely overtuned, lab is laughably worse and endgame is exactly the same but with -500% ms, then yeah, it's a different game.

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N3vangel#0037 wrote:

What I’m trying to say is - if you remove all consequence - progression becomes inevitable- thus trivializing the game.

Only a badly balanced game that takes zero skill once you're geared gets trivialized. That's the real lesson PoE has yet to learn, if ever.