Why POE2’s Direction Is Worrying for Veterans and Newcomers Alike
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goddamn this is a longass thread that no1 at ggg will ever see cos by the time they come off holiday it will be like 100 pages long and they will see it and be like "nah"
Add Scion To PoE2
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I feel it the same way as someone that spent a lot of time on poe1 and for people that are saying "you like poe1 then go play poe1 and dont complain" yeah I could go play poe1 but what I liked on that game was community, trading and inpiring my own builds from other people, with poe2 released there is a few people playing poe1 and I dont like SSF. So I am kinda forced to play poe2 and I cant say I am having fun most of the time
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" Ah, a private account chiming in with bold claims, zero experience in PoE1 trying to tell others how to feel about PoE2—classic. Let me clear up your misunderstanding: nobody here is saying PoE2 should be identical to PoE1. The argument is about PoE2 lacking the depth and core systems that made PoE1 successful. Your comment not only ignores the actual discussion but also shows you didn’t bother reading before replying. If you want PoE2 to be its own game, fine—but that doesn’t mean the game should be fundamentally worse by abandoning mechanics that worked. Perhaps spend some time understanding what’s being said before chiming in with unhelpful takes. Last edited by Kaukus1#7461 on Dec 23, 2024, 11:04:48 AM
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" And this is the crux of why your original post struck me as such a real issue. You have decided that anyone who dislikes PoE1 - for any reason - simply doesn't "understand" PoE1. That anyone who doesn't like anything PoE1 did is simply too stupid, lazy, scrubby, or uninvested to be worth listening to. That anyone who didn't enjoy Path of Exile 1 to the same degree you did does not deserve PoE2 and needs to be eliminated so the true POE1 purists can get POE2 turned into PoE1, and then all will be right with the world. Your argument assumes that the dedicated diehard POE1 audience is the only possible audience there is, and anything which "alienates" that audience, i.e. anything which is different from PoE1, is a disservice to the only players that matter. Again - I have four separate friends who, all four, tried POE1 and bounced before Kitava because the game was and is a total slog that expects far too much of any new player. And no, having an experienced player (me) sitting down and dumping exposition and systems lore at them the whole time they play was not a solution. Each of those friends has bought into PoE2 and is enjoying it. Two are working their way through Cruel difficulty right now, one is rampaging through endgame maps, and one is working eighty-hour workweeks because he's a food services worker in December but has been intrigued by what little playtime he's gotten so far. Four separate people who all decided PoE1 was for the birds, all excited to dig into and try PoE2. One of whom is handily keeping pace with all the Streamer Memers chewing through endgame, two more of whom have accrued a workweek's worth of playtime on the new game despite it only being available for two and a half weeks so far. PoE2's appeal to modern gamers with modern sensibilities is working. But it won't work if folks like you insist on clawing all the ugly, bloated, incomprehensible jank from PoE1 back into the new game and eliminate the cleaner, more elegant systems entirely. Are the equivalent systems in the new game there yet? No. personally, I'd like to see the Salvage Bench be able to extract runes from gear sockets (destructively or otherwise) so you can switch rune bonuses around, as well as being able to pull Soul Cores from gear for reuse. Perhaps charge a Transmute or Aug for pulling a rune destructively, an Artificer's Orb for pulling a rune non-destructively, and a Vaal Orb for extracting a Soul Core. That would honestly help a lot in the early game when you're afraid of dumping runes into rune sockets because if you stop needing that rune's bonuses you've effectively wasted your rune socket, and would mostly bring the Salvage bench and the rune system in line with the basic loser slap-patching of the old POE1 crafting bench Also a little confused why caster staves don't get any rune sockets, that feels like a real jerk move to casters who're denied that socket for endgame Soul Cores without any decent reason, but eh. But does that mean I just want PoE1 back? Where the "endgame" is gated behind being able to do a billion DPS, where you are physically required to replace your legs with a shield or a set of daggers so you can Whirling Shield Blade Charge your way through maps, where literally the only answer to the question of supporting a skill is "PUT 'MOAR DAMAJ' SUPPORTS IN IT UNTIL THEY STOP FITTING", and all the rest of the ugly jank? No, thank you. |
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" Ah, you sound exactly like the people who flooded the Diablo 4 forums, defending every bad design decision while the game still had hype. Remember how that turned out? Hundreds of thousands left, and now barely anyone talks about D4 positively. PoE2 isn't magically immune to the same fate if shallow systems and bad design choices are propped up by people like you. Maybe take a step back before history repeats itself. |
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" Unless you’re as dumb as you are then we can assume plenty about leagues and be somewhere between 95-100% correct at this stage |
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" You’ve got 4 friends and one of them is in endgame where 99% of the problems mount up? Well that’s just swell. You made a great point. Maybe if you add another friend who has heard of poe2 and shows signs of interest we can just put this whole argument to rest. |
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" Out of the loop, first message of yours I read. But basically, this wall of text actually tells very few things. - Your ppl were scared about the amount of stuff to learn in PoE1 (which is valid). Funny thing is that the game is not expecting anything from anyone. You could have fun doing the campaign only in PoE1 as well as PoE2. - They (and you) like PoE2, basically because it's dumbed down, slower/cleaner, newer. Truth is, PoE2 will get bloated the same way overtime by design. - Finally, your billion DPS gate, and the shield charge nonsense is only you ranting for god knows what reason. You didn't kill endgame bosses in PoE1. Did you in PoE2 ? There are builds outputing billion in PoE2 right now. What you highlight as problems are self-inflicted. In PoE1, you put pressure on your mates to reach you because you are ahead in knowledge. While at the same time you get the pressure from top players because they do billions and you feel bad. In reality none of this should matter to you, but it still does (I'm no exception) In PoE2 you feel all at the same level, because we all started as noobs. So you don't have the same pressure, but it's all an illusion that will fade away reaaaaaaaaally quick. Not saying what you like or don't is invalid, feel free to do so. But the reasons for it don't seem to be the one you think, respectfully. Good luck, have fun anyway |
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Unpopular Opinion: I'm concerned that GGG wants their cake and to eat it too.
Specifically has GGG CLEARLY said who the game is for and, more importantly, who it is NOT for?? For example is PoE2 for the "hardcore" D1, D2, PoE1 Ruthless, crowd what want a challenge with scarcity being a driving factor?? Is PoE2 for those people that want to blend a Souls-like with an ARGP?? Are they trying to attract people with really good pattern recognition, processing & reaction speeds and blend those genres?? Is PoE2 for the PoE1 enjoyer?? The one in endgame that zoom zooms, has boss-trivializing damage, and the wealth of Midas?? Is PoE2 for the casual that averages maybe an hour per day over the course of a week but they still expect a viable end-game experience?? The thing is I see some design decisions that SEEM to support one thing and other decisions that look like it's going for something else. I'm not convinced that PoE2 can be a jack-of-all-trades sort of game and be successful. It needs to find its voice and then become the best game it can once the vision is clearly nailed down. Last edited by KingAlamar#4071 on Dec 23, 2024, 11:40:58 AM
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" Again - I personally know four separate people engaging meaningfully with PoE2 who all tried PoE1 and hated it. You keep dismissing the opinions of people who disagree with you as being useless and of no consequence because anyone who understands PoE1 the way you do would obviously agree that it is the pinnacle of perfection and the new game must immediately abandon any attempt at differentiating itself from its predecessor or it will end up like...the most financially successful ARPG of the modern age. Huh. Is Diablo 4 a Masterpiece of Gaming Perfection? Not by a long shot. But boy howdy does it do a better job of attracting and onboarding newcomers than Path of Exile 1 does. D4's expansions sell, its seasons put up numbers. PoE1 supervets meme on D4, but even you have talked about how successful its launch was. And as someone who ends up with a fairly broad spectrum of gaming news in her feed, lemme tell ye - D4 isn't nearly as much of an abandoned ghost town as you think it is. I don't play it myself because ActiBlizzard is a chauvinistic transphobic disaster of a company I refuse to support, but the game still does perfectly fine even with its crap build diversity and constant actual balance problems. Here's the thing - ARPG fans hate D4. But they're not the ones Blizzard made the game for, and the people they did make the game for play and enjoy it just fine. Of course, that's what truly scares the POE1 supervets, I think - the idea that Grinding Gear is right. That all this "lost depth, complexity, and engagement" the POE1 supervets are complaining about were actually just bloated barriers to entry that didn't need to be there, and the game will thrive perfectly fine without them. Not one single goddamn soul misses Orbs of Fusing. The three dozen interlocking, overpriced, obtuse and counter-helpful "crafting systems" POE2 currently doesn't have? Maybe they're just Orbs of Fusing in disguise. Again - fix the Salvage Bench so it can extract items from sockets on gear and allow us to resocket the gear. Boom - almost all the "deterministic crafting" complaints relating to the POE1 crafting bench solved. Perhaps unfuck Essences so they give specific modifiers again rather than just Fossil-style modifier types. And frankly, knock the "+Gem Level" modifiers on the head so we stop seeing +42 to gem levels on gear and there stops being a single "correct" answer to itemization. Weapons have no bloody business giving +6 or more to skill level, and once that modifier stops being stupid other mods on weapons will be less of a Loss Condition by comparison. The answer isn't "blow up the new game entirely and just make it PoE1", the way you keep arguing for. The answer is to tune and adjust the systems until they reach a state of comfortable equilibrium. |
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