Game is turning into a glass cannon only builds

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auspexa wrote:

Do you really think every player who makes it to the endgame is nolifing this game and playing like 13 hours a day? I'm married, I work a full time job and I clear the endgame every league in less than a month, and there are thousands of players like me

Wait no Mirrors? Aren't you just the poor then?

Guess there are various degree of nolifing this game. You certainly haven't reached the pinnacle of nolifing this game.

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auspexa wrote:

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awesome999 wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

those are nobody's problem, because they are all fake problems that don't exist in reality, a manifestation of dunning kruger effect

How many mirrors this league?

Precisely what I meant by People who think If it ain't my problem, it is not a problem at all. Of course, poverty isn't a problem for the rich. People who don't have time to play the video game isn't a problem for people who play this game all day. People who are proud of themselves as expert of the game simply laugh at the noobs.

There is simply nothing wrong for some people. "Nothing" is it ever really nothing? Some people just choose to ignore others instead of addressing and resolving problems. You don't care or feel indifferent towards them.

That's my interpretation at least.

How many mirrors? My build cost me less than 200 divs, and I can basically go afk in all uber fights and I can run 100% deli T17. It's not even a meta build, I made it and wasted a lot of currency trying to find the most optimal setup. Now I have like 650 divs sitting in my stash but I don't even need to spend it since I'll get 40/40 and quit

There are countless 10 div challenges on youtube where people do T17s and ubers on a low budget build, but let me guess. You don't have 10 divs and you don't know how to make 10 divs?

It's not like we had 500 mil dps and multi-mirror builds when we started the game. I couldn't even go past level 92-93 on my first characters, because I was a noob, I was lazy, I wasn't mapping efficiently, I wasn't trying to understand why my builds suck

Do you really think every player who makes it to the endgame is nolifing this game and playing like 13 hours a day? I'm married, I work a full time job and I clear the endgame every league in less than a month, and there are thousands of players like me

post pob, i wanna take a look at those "can afk ubers" defenses :)
maybe learn something

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awesome999 wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

Do you really think every player who makes it to the endgame is nolifing this game and playing like 13 hours a day? I'm married, I work a full time job and I clear the endgame every league in less than a month, and there are thousands of players like me

Wait no Mirrors? Aren't you just the poor then?

Guess there are various degree of nolifing this game. You certainly haven't reached the pinnacle of nolifing this game.

what would I need a mirror for? I make a build, minmax it a bit, clear the endgame and quit the game until the next league. by the time I have enough currency to afford a mirror, I'm already done with the league. going for multi mirror builds is pointless, it's no different from playing in standard league

and as I said, there are about 650 divs sitting in my stash, but it's useless because my build is already strong enough to kill everything without dying and I'm not really interested in making a new build since the league mechanic is very boring

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auspexa wrote:

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awesome999 wrote:

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auspexa wrote:

Do you really think every player who makes it to the endgame is nolifing this game and playing like 13 hours a day? I'm married, I work a full time job and I clear the endgame every league in less than a month, and there are thousands of players like me

Wait no Mirrors? Aren't you just the poor then?

Guess there are various degree of nolifing this game. You certainly haven't reached the pinnacle of nolifing this game.

what would I need a mirror for? I make a build, minmax it a bit, clear the endgame and quit the game until the next league. by the time I have enough currency to afford a mirror, I'm already done with the league. going for multi mirror builds is pointless, it's no different from playing in standard league

and as I said, there are about 650 divs sitting in my stash, but it's useless because my build is already strong enough to kill everything without dying and I'm not really interested in making a new build since the league mechanic is very boring

"Get good but not great"?

There's nothing wrong with being bad at a game not unless you feel like there is. It's often your own perception that makes you feel like you need to be better at a game or that you need to prove something to others. Not unless you’re getting paid to play the game then it doesn't matter.

People telling other people to get good. It doesn't make much sense if you think about it. If you have to constantly comparing Yourself to Others and find youself not coming close to measuring up, you will feel pitiful and unhappy.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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awesome999 wrote:

People telling other people to get good. It doesn't make much sense if you think about it. If you have to constantly comparing Yourself to Others and find youself not coming close to measuring up, you will feel pitiful and unhappy.

That's not what that saying is for, though. It's used for people who will do nothing but complain and look for excuses, rather than put in the time and effort to even TRY to overcome a challenge. PoE is a problem solving game; "getting good" is part of it.

What if they can't beat the game? If they can't beat it, POE is THE PROBLEM.

Some people are bad at games. Some video game journalists are invited to play POE2 and they couldn't beat the boss. They solve the problem by simply quitting. Zizaran say it negatively affect the game.

Making a video game bloody hard when Everyone is different. If they don't see THE PROBLEM, not playing it is indeed what GGG want. Quitting is fine.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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awesome999 wrote:

What if they can't beat the game? If they can't beat it, POE is THE PROBLEM.

Define beat the game. If you mean the basic campaign, then yes, they need to "git gud". There are no particular obstructions that cannot be overcome with practice.

There's an exception to this, and it's a rather particular, isolated issue, and that's Maven's Memory Game. Like, I personally cannot beat the longer sequence due to what I will now refer to as a "bug in my brain", meaning I am physically unable to memorize the sequence that fast. Doesn't matter how much I practice, I just can't. The short one is not a problem. Unlike Searing Exarch's ball phase, which is really just me lacking practice. I don't have issues with my hand-eye coordination. So, yeah, I need to "git gud" in that fight's section.

Now, while I agree that Memory Game is imo terrible "gatekeep" design, I've settled with the fact that it will just cost me at least 1 portal, no matter what. Doesn't stop me from actually being able to kill her.

You are missing the point. These video game journalists doesn't have to play the game or give good reviews. They DON'T need to "git gud", This "NEED" is Nonsense when in reality they don't even want to play the game.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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awesome999 wrote:

They DON'T need to "git gud", This "NEED" is Nonsense when in reality they don't even want to play the game.

I guess we are in fundamental disagreement over what constitutes as "the game". IMO, overcoming the challenge is part of the game. And then the "real game" begins and the fun starts.

Video game journalists are notorious for being absolutely terrible at their job, which obviously doesn't apply to every individual, but using them as a metric is just heavily flawed. They don't even have the time available to put in to overcome the learning curve some games have. That doesn't make the games bad, the people reviewing it just lacked time. Some games start to take off after 2 hours or so, as is typically the case for RPGs. That's also why Steam's refund system is flawed, but that's a topic for another time.

Video game journalists more qualifies as 'normies'. Self elected reviews by players are skewed too positively. Players have what I call "my favorite game can't be bad" biases. In the sense as the worse players in a game are the deciding factor when they are the judges, POE would fail miserably.

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awesome999 wrote:

What if they can't beat the game? If they can't beat it, POE is THE PROBLEM.

Some people are bad at games. Some video game journalists are invited to play POE2 and they couldn't beat the boss. They solve the problem by simply quitting. Zizaran say it negatively affect the game.

Making a video game bloody hard when Everyone is different. If they don't see THE PROBLEM, not playing it is indeed what GGG want. Quitting is fine.

Can I ask you a question? Or a few?

There a millions of games out there on the market and more being released every day. Lots of them being similar, lots of them being different. You should think that most gamers could find a game that suits them, right?

Now, shouldn't it be OK for some games to be a little more niche than others, appealing to a certain crowd? Like PoE? Or EVE Online? Games that are very hard to really "get into", and that require a certain amount of time investment to really beat the game? Should games like this be illegal? Or should they be irradicated? Should the developers force them to be "more casual"? Or, again, should there be room for a FEW of these games on the market, when all other games are turning into interactive "story modes" without any challenges?

So is "PoE the PROBLEM"? No. The contrast between what the player wants and what the game aims to do/achieve is the problem. If not tending to EVERY players needs and wants makes a game "a problem", it seems like you want every game to appeal to everyone and casualize everything on the market, making every game "the same", with no room for niche games.

There are a lot of "normies" playing PoE, and there will be a lot of "normies" playing PoE 2, even though the game is probably not aimed at them from an "do it all" perspective. Players that know that they will never be able to do everything, but get enjoyment out of the game regardless.

Last question: Should a "normie" be able to beat every game on the market? Is every game that a "normie" can't beat a "PROBLEM"? And who is it a "PROBLEM" for?

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that PoE is perfect; it's not. I'm not saying that PoE 2 will be perfect; it won't. But PoE being grindy, requires a certain time investment and knowledge to "beat it" and be rather complex will never go away. Also; I have been playing for more than 10 years and there are still certain Ubers I haven't beaten yet. I do not blame the game for that.

I'd be upset if I invited games journalists to play my game and they could beat the boss.

Isn't that kind of the joke/meme/problem/falsehood(sometimes) about games journalists?

Its very hard to attribute whether that is a problem or not also, not just because of what Phrazz is saying about different games for different players but because there are games whose difficulty sells the product especially when marketed at "normies".

Souls games get bandied about all day these days for example but the truth is dank souls: prepare to dank was never that hard - it is however very hard if you aren't accustomed to the type of game it is.

They absolutely made bank off that fact and the fact most players struggle with it is part of the appeal.

To bring this back to GGG the appeal of difficulty in a well structured and balanced game is immense to some players - if I can play on SC and feel challenged both in terms of my mechanical skill and in terms of my big brain PoB/character creation skills that is a recipe for success for players like me.

Meanwhile some players will be absolutely disgusted if they have to put anything more than cursory effort into understanding something. That reads like an insult but it isn't its entirely different goals of a hobbie.

You cannot simultaneously please these two crowds it is not possible you choose one and that's all there is to it.

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Draegnarrr wrote:

You cannot simultaneously please these two crowds it is not possible you choose one and that's all there is to it.

I believe they could. They make their hard game harder with ruthless mode. A game can be changed for individual players with game mode. They simply choose not to divert their resources for other purposes. They choose not to.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

That is just not how the world works, and based on some of the petty complaints I've seen in reviews, the absolute worst type of players cannot properly articulate themselves and won't post anything useful, i.e. "No Ultrawide support. Game sucks!" or "low FPS! sh1t game!" (while playing a 2024 game on a 2013 machine). Then you also got the opposite end of the spectrum, with useless reviews such as "<insert copy pasted ASCII image>" or "Good." or "Boobs."

Immature reviews from terrible players at large does not quantify the quality of a game as a whole. Same can be said for certain reviewers, some of which that are notorious for being absolute bottom of the barrel, that will spend a short time looking at a list of checkboxes and then form an uninformed, biased opinion delivered as a review of the game. Often with little to no nuance.

"No, you must be wrong," argued the blind man.

What is the moral of the Three Blind men and the elephant?

Their 5/10 will be 5/10 and your 10/10 will be 10/10. Subjective experiences emphasizes the role of the subject because they're the one having the experience. The game can be both good or terrible to different people. Subjective experiences can be equally true. If they don't like something, they don't like something.