Fix the bugs in the game!
" Back to the case at point, you are annoyed and frustrated that they don't fix this specific bug, correct? They had fixed it in the past, but it seemed to have broken itself again in a recent patch... I can only assume the developers don't immediately understand why it broke again. They may have even looked at the statistics on how many people invest in this keystone and saw that < 1% have this allocated and concluded, if we spend time and effort fixing this one particular bug < 1% of players will benefit from this fix. Thoughts? |
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"No, I have 1-2 workarounds for this bug. "Dont know what you are trying to get at. But in terms of what you write here this bug is particularly insidious in nature. To demonstrate my own story about Harvest Crop Rotatation: I tried it. My impression was its inferior to not using it. I then tried to figure out how it worked. However it made no sense to me. As analyzing such things isnt my job I unspecced it and kind of "forgot" about it. At some time later I read in reddit about the bug. In retrospect it thus made sense that it made no sense to me before. Because I had only been looking at the panels falsely believing what was written there. Now with the full knowledge from the reddit thread(s - I think there were at least 2) I can do this properly despite the bug. So in short: This keystone being unpopular may simple be because of the bug. And it turns players away who would want to use it and are victimized by it. So looking at current users isnt a good measure for potential popularity. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" Are you able to elaborate on what your workarounds are? - They might assist the developers in identifying the root cause of the issue. " Are you able to provide steps to replicate this bug? The reddit posts I saw state that it was random and only occured 10% of the time (this makes it extremely difficult for developers to triage - so providing steps to replicate ensures the developers are looking at the right code) " Potentially, but how do you quantify that? maybe just look at the amount of people doing grove. Either way, the back to basics atlas keystone was broken, the team were swift to resolve those issues, very quick to deploy to production. Just using this as an example of an extremely popular broken atlas keystone getting more attention than another. |
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"The workarounds are for me. They dont prevent the bug. I can live with the bug. One of them is to go to hideout and back. As I have shown/written here in this thread. The other is to look at the gfx. Far as I know the gfx is correct, the panel display text is not. But for red it can be a bit hard to see the number of T3 - for me at least. "I dont know what triggers it. And if its 10% then that makes it "super easy" for competent developers to catch. "You cant without investigating (simply asking would be natural here) players. "If you are referring to what I vaguely remember then it was functionally broken so that it could be "abused". Quite a different thing from a display bug. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" Are you speaking from experience? Cause I can tell you i've assigned developers to triage issues that occur randomly and after 3 days had to abandon as nobody could figure out what was causing it. Until additional information is provided or a deeper insight, the problem could persist for decades to come. "I'd encourage you to start a petition, seeking player feedback as to whether or not they'd invest in harvest/crop rotation if the current known, randomly |
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"Yes. "Quite possible. I intentionally added the "competent" part. Randomly assigned developers not understanding the source code sufficiently to fix randomly occurring bugs is a typical symptom of contemporary software company culture. Those assigned need to either be good at debugging or have proper intrinsic knowledge/responsibility of the respective code parts. Otherwise it can be approximately impossible for the median (not "competent" at debugging) developer to deal with such a thing. IMO contemporary typical software developing companies could do a lot better on that front. Also one thing that management often doesnt seem to properly understand is the huge (Im talking >10x time efficiency) discrepancy between developers good at debugging and median developers. (And based on reading posts by game developers my impression is that game development managers are especially prone to this.) If you just throw some random developers at it - yes its in the expected spectrum of outcomes that they will fail miserably. "This thread is not about this particular bug. Dont know how often I have written this already. Its about some players (me at least) not being happy with the current level of bug fixing. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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"I agree, it's dependent on the skill level of your developers but also the age of the product. It's not like many high end companies can employ 100+ top of the class developers and keep them financially satisfied in their workplace for decades. Over the years they cycle, new developers come in the front door, having to read and understand code written years ago by someone else. Which is hard cause coding standards have changed over the years. "It's understood but the financial constraints are what bind them. Unfortunately budgets aren't infinite, they're actually extremely limited. And the skilled developers market is highly competitive. So what developers they have, they want to maximise the output. " Then I would suggest articulating that better in a forum thread. And like this conversation, learning and developing an understanding of what words to use when expressing an opinion. |
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"The focus on coding standards (instead of understanding of the programming language) is also one of the flaws of contemporary company culture. While some degree of coding standard or such makes sense. If the end effect is that developers can no longer understand other code than something did go wrong badly - or in case of young/new developers never actually learn the programming language they are using. "Skilled developer doesnt imply good at finding bugs in someone elses code. You need skills/knoledge that are often unncesessary for other development tasks and a suitable mentality for that. IME most general developers dont have them. But they can still efficiently find most bugs with standard approaches so from an outside POV this can be hard to understand. "My take is that the wording in title and OP are quite clear. And if you got a better idea of how to word it you could just share it. Some posters here seem to have a strong desire to find hidden meanings or some such but there arent any. Its as simple as written in the title/OP. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" Purely from the discussion we've had in this specific thread, here is the culmination of my understanding of your issues, articulated in a way that is more approachable than Fix the bugs in the game! Where you're first post was; " Dear GGG, We understand there are a myriad of bugs within the game, we understand the focus is on POE2, we understand that resources and finances are constrained and limited. However, Trawling the poe forums and reddit, it's clear that there are a number of bugs still persiting throughout the game. Specifically the ones that users encounter on their day to day journeys throughout Wraeclast. Currently, There isn't sufficient response on the news or forums to rest our quarrels with these issues. From Client Crashes, desync issues, primary functionality of the game like Atlas passives, specifically, but not limited to, Grove and Bestiary. I believe it would satisfy the players of Path of Exile to hear more about what bugs are in-scope and have been, or scheduled to, be triaged with the team. We don't need to hear about new functionality on the horizon, that's reserved for league launches - so if the plan is to re-scope the functionality as an alternative to fixing the issue, just simply let us know it's being addressed. We're not expecting these bug fixes to be dropped in a daily production release, we know it takes time to develop, test and deploy updates. We're just simply asking for acknowledgement of the bugs that are important to us, because they impact us. Players will continue to submit bug reports, post on reddit and the forums about their issues, but there is no Known Issues page that can be referenced to say "Oh yeah that bug is acknowledged, check out this page" So we're left to guess whether the bug is even acknowledged by the company. Thoughts? |
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"I can add your post to the OP - please make clear if that post reflects your opinion or if you were just trying to guess mine in which case I wont - but some parts are disagreeable for me so its going to be your post without me "signing" it. Disagreeable are: 1) "we understand the focus is on POE2" I dont "understand" the focus on PoE2. Its a weird thing dominant in contemporary culture to make new for the sake of new. But I do not "understand" it, although I can observe it. 2) "we understand that resources and finances are constrained and limited." While this is correct it would be misleading for me to write this as it doesnt properly reflect my opinions on the matter from a quantitative perspective. 3) The focus on general one-time feedback. I dont care about words. I wouldnt believe them anyway. The focus on "soothe players now" is exactly what I am NOT looking for. I want a so-to-speak better future, not nice words now. Obviously feedback now wouldnt be bad but I would never bother to make a topic/post for it. What I believe in are deeds / visible results: a) Bugs fixed in the game, and put the fixes into patch notes. b) Better feedback to players who report bugs, put it into the forum where they are reported. The quota of threads with "GGG" seems to be <5% now. And dont just move threads off the bug forum without comment. It takes time and effort for players to report. Giving them zero feedback discourages making bug reports. c) Uptodate bug list (technically there is a known issues page) - just look at the last update of this way too short list: Last edited by Kieren_GGG on Jan 30, 2024, 4:28:14 AM -- Also in addition to the above in case you are unaware of it: The way you try to communicate here is not how GGG wants players to communicate. There have been various statements by GGG execs on that in the past. I remember the following: 1) Players are supposed to make "angry reddit threads". Chris Wilson IIRC. Long ago. IIRC the reasoning given was that they want undiminished emotional feedback. 2) Players are supposed to write "Bingo"s. The new guy in charge, rather recently. He supposedly wants it to be short and simple, doesnt want essays. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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