Fix the bugs in the game!
" Please provide evidence of this? Do you have leaked emails from the company that expose these claims? Because in my actual experience, which I am trying to describe in these responses. Is that they do care, they very much care, they are quite responsive to fixing bugs that have a major impact. And, like any company globally, low impact bugs will persists for decades, because they are, low impact. | |
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Not the "quotation marks" as if you are quoting someone but really it's just unsubstantiated claims..
The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
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"The evidence is the game. The bugs are there. They have been there for a long time. They have been posted on reddit. Players know, see Nomancs post. Unless you somehow believe these (I listed some in this thread) would be hard to fix. Make this clear if its so? "Im not talking about bugs they believe to have a "major impact". Im mostly talking about a certain class of the bugs in the game, not some "major impact" bugs they have fixed in the past. See my first/OP post - its right there. "Translated: You agree with me: They dont care as long as they get to label a bug "low impact". And now back to the whole point of this thread: Some players (me at least) are unhappy about this. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" There would be a time:effort calculated on all bugs listed in the forums, if not all then most. If known bugs haven't been fixed, it means they have been classed as low impact. " Right, so you want the team to prioritise ALL low impact bugs? usually teams, if capacity is available, fit in a few low impact bugs that can be easily addressed. The difficulty nowadays is capacity, resourcing is becoming extremely costly. " Please refrain from twisting the words of others, it's certainly frowned upon. I have explicity stated that they care, thus you cannot state that I agree with you that they don't care. Here is a bit of additional information as to why teams don't have the capacity to fix all the bugs important to users, with a low impact. Developers and typical work environments get paid to work ~8 hours a day, ~5 days a week. I'd imagine on the weekends for league launches. Have a little appreciation for how much can actually be solved within that timeframe. Developers already have an extremely rough time, they are responsible for every working and not working implementation into the game. To fix all the bugs requires them to de-prioritise the major impact or important features.... or the alternative work more hours than humanly possible to fix all the in-scope issues and new features. This is why bugs exist in code, for all appications globally, because nobody has code that can write/fix itself, currently still relies on humans slaving away at a keyboard, developing, testing and deploying code. | |
"Means (in my words) they dont care about those bugs. "Im unhappy with the current situation. This is in part a quantity thing. As you write "fit in a few". Assuming you are correct: This "few" should be increased significantly. And they could just ask players in a suitable manner as to which bugs (and other issues) to fix first. "You seem to agree in principle: "They care" is not consistent with your "persists for decades" which I am pointing out here. Unless maybe if your context for your "they care" is different from my context for "they care". (Mine is the bugs this thread is primarily about.) Aka: They care so much about those bugs that they dont fix them and let them in the code for decades - thats not consistent with my understanding of the phrase "they care". Or rephrasing "they care" would be lip service not consistent with actions. "This (GGG lacking in the bug fixing) is a management issue. "My perspective is quite different as to why lots of contemporary code is so buggy. This is however more a philosophical thing. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" I get the connotation, i have a few things around the house that need fixing but I don't have the time to fix them. If I cared about them, i'd make the time. But that's personal, this is business. " It's ok to be unhappy with the current sitatuion, I have quit games because I was constantly being impacted by a low priority bug. It's annoying and frustrating. What I hope helps, is the understanding that this feeling isn't specific to any one game. The issue with this statement is, ask players - What players? do we nominate a panel of players to decide which bugs get fixed in what priority? Typically the team will have a Product Owner, to decide what features / bugs get implemented in what patch (as you'll see in the patch notes section of the forum, each version release has a set number of features and fixes decided based on priority order) So back to my previous posts regarding wording, if you can convince that person with your words in a forum post that your bug is the most important bug than maybe they will prioritise your issue. " It is, you can care for something, but have no time for it. I'd love to take up dancing, piano lessons, learn to paint and cook.... i care for them all passionately, but just because I don't do them, doesn't mean I don't care for them. "If only the team could employ the 9,000 developers required to fix all the bugs that have persisted for decades. Unfortunately, highly skilled develoeprs don't work for free, which is an advantage with open source code - people jump in for free and fix your bugs :) but that has it's own issues. | |
"That doesnt need to be complicated. For example introduce a "one bugfix a day" system. Every day ask one player on the HCSSF ladder starting from top for a pet peeve with the game. Fix it if its easy to fix, ask again (within limits) if its not. Or you can come up with some other system. It doesnt need to be perfect. "This topic is about changing the system not about working inside the system. "Guess you are using the phrase quite differently from me then. There is no way I would say "I care about my dancing" when I spend no effort to actually do it and instead prioritize various other things consistently (for decades) above it. Now if you would be forced to do something else its a different thing but GGG (management) isnt forced to not fix those bugs - at least thats my base assumption here. "All the bugs I listed for this topic (not my reports) are (presumably) easy to fix. One competent developer could make a major impact. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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" This idea of how bugs are fixed is fantasy. No company would consider taking their system offline, every day, to deploy "one small fix" the player base would outrage. Let alone tasking a developer to triage, develop, test and deploy a bug fix a day, that would be an extreme ask. "Most, if not all companies globally follow the same system. Because, it's a system that works and it's impossible to comprehend a different system working as efficiently. Many have tried, spend millions on researching how to work more efficiency. Working with players is a great way to collate feedback, but not seek direction on the priority. "100% it's in their best interest to fix bugs, however given the sheer volume you can't fix them all. No company ever has released a product bug free, Microsoft can't even release Windows bug free and their user base is tens of millions over GGGs hundreds of thousands. "Easy to fix is a broad assumption, but still doesn't negate the time required to fix and test them. Time taken away from other development opportunities. | |
"This is the PR/communication part. They dont even need to fix it in the code at that day. Certainly not "deploy" it. "Its just contemporary culture. "I dont have any issues with such comprehension. "Do not agree. Obviously in a game made for players it makes sense to ask players what they care about. "Whats your point here? Are you trying to say it makes no sense to fix bugs because you cant fix all of them? "They let the players test as usual. And yes it takes effort/time/money. If I wasnt properly clear: Fixing the game is more important to me than making new buggy stuff. Quality over quantity (meaning feature bloat, later discarded leagues and such here with quantity). No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!
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"Is the request here to deploy daily notes on the progress of all developers?... They do this for each release, these are what the developers have tested and is ready for deploy, here are the patch notes of things that have been fixed. " Seeking feedback is asking players what they care about, but what you care about and what everyone else cares about is different. Have you seen the year long discussion on melee and how GGG have never fixed that? Have you seen how some builds perform significantly better than others on cheaper budgets? Those aren't bugs, but inbalances that players would love to be addressed. Re-iterating the point, can't solve all player problems. " The point is, they are fixing bugs, maybe not the bugs you report because they're busy fixing all the other bugs other players are reporting and/or experiencing. " Again, differ of opinion. Making new buggy stuff is more important to me as a player, because that's what brings players back to the game. You'd have to represent the whole or majority player base to substantiate such claims as "What's important to me should be equally as important to this company I appear to have invested $0 in" Such as the claim you made about my dancing, you have no care for it, that doesn't stop me from caring about it. |
