Melee changes in Necropolis?

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Phrazz wrote:

That said, my biggest problem with melee as a whole, is rather personal and subjective. No matter what skill I try to build around (and I've probably tried them all), the build automatically feels like crap to play if the attack speed is slower than 4 APS. And while that is a "me" problem, I know of many players in the same shoes. So maybe it's possible to do something with certain design choices, animations or mechanics here.

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I'm a melee lover. And the most fun builds I've ever played? Well, fast moving, fast attacking builds like Lightning Strike before the nerf, Frost Blades, my Staff crit non-Shockwave cycloner I did back in Ritual league was fun as hell. Two of those heavily nerfed. I guess I'm going Frost Blades... Again... This league.

You should check new Dual Strike and new Double Strike then. Both of them can easily reach 10 APS, if you are into that.

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Lonesong wrote:

Thanks to Affliction I had the chance to get into more advanced builds, more advanced items and different crafting options. The result was really dissapointing. I invested more than 40 divines in my character and the one shots were still there.

They will always be there. You will never avoid them unless you are playing some immortal buld worth several mirrors. Its just how PoE works.

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Aynix wrote:

You should check new Dual Strike and new Double Strike then. Both of them can easily reach 10 APS, if you are into that.

Played them lots of times. Personally find them crap while progressing. At late endgame, when you actually reach that attack speed, have the gear and investment? Sure, they can do some work - like most melee skills.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

You should check new Dual Strike and new Double Strike then. Both of them can easily reach 10 APS, if you are into that.

Played them lots of times. Personally find them crap while progressing. At late endgame, when you actually reach that attack speed, have the gear and investment? Sure, they can do some work - like most melee skills.

Well, except the leaguestarter, with every other build I skip right into "endgame" because the moment I finish campaign I have entire gear ready. Guess thats why I can ejoy almost every skill in this game.
Also Im talking about new - transfigured version of those skills. Dual Strike allows you to equip main hand with very big raw DMG and offhand with a lot of attack speed and it combines into "one". Double Stike of Momentum incrase your attack speed the more you attack. Have you tested those?

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Aynix wrote:

Have you tested those?

Of course I have, I wouldn't be uttering my opinions if not.

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Aynix wrote:

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Phrazz wrote:

That said, my biggest problem with melee as a whole, is rather personal and subjective. No matter what skill I try to build around (and I've probably tried them all), the build automatically feels like crap to play if the attack speed is slower than 4 APS. And while that is a "me" problem, I know of many players in the same shoes. So maybe it's possible to do something with certain design choices, animations or mechanics here.

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I'm a melee lover. And the most fun builds I've ever played? Well, fast moving, fast attacking builds like Lightning Strike before the nerf, Frost Blades, my Staff crit non-Shockwave cycloner I did back in Ritual league was fun as hell. Two of those heavily nerfed. I guess I'm going Frost Blades... Again... This league.

You should check new Dual Strike and new Double Strike then. Both of them can easily reach 10 APS, if you are into that.

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Lonesong wrote:

Thanks to Affliction I had the chance to get into more advanced builds, more advanced items and different crafting options. The result was really dissapointing. I invested more than 40 divines in my character and the one shots were still there.

They will always be there. You will never avoid them unless you are playing some immortal buld worth several mirrors. Its just how PoE works.

You are right. Just saying that being range/minions is definitively way easier than mele in those terms. Personally I miss some mele oriented changes.

I tried explaining my case because getting to level 100 is a big archievement and I feel that with mele, as you say, either you focus on something specific and unreachable for the majority or you will just be one shot more often than being range and/or having minions.

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Rework those damn melee totems to not be mandatory buff sticks and melee will feel great. Thats all what it needs.

That's about 1% of the scale of the current melee problem. Based on the combat design and the near zero defensive tools offered to melee gem tag players, melee players are so faaaaaaaaaaaar behind defensively that the POE community is truly delusional about it.

Fortify gives 20% hit damage reduction for 5-10 seconds? Assuming you hit something enough before you are deleted by *insert elemental/chaos barrage here likely from offscreen* ? How about:

- Fortify is baked as a proc into every melee gem tag skill
- Therefore Fortify gem support is removed
- Fortify grants 20% reduction to both hits and dots/degen of all damage types
- Fortify effect is increased to 40% if you are facing the enemy as they are rearranging your face
- Fortify also grants some spell suppression and spell block, subject to tuning

Many people in this post continue to be completely oblivious about the defensive side of things in the gross imbalance present. Having dangerous situations in melee is fine IF the game provides the proper tools, and the player knows how to use those tools effectively, AND those tools don't require an insane currency investment (relative to the average caster or bow or ranged build).

You can't just with a straight face say that the defensive "tools" for a melee archetype in an ARPG are:

1) don't get near melee range
2) don't stand still

The logic there is equivalent to telling a deadeye ranger to drop their bow and go hug the boss in melee.

I played D3 for a while and the 30% passive DR baked into the barb, monk, crusader classes was OK but a lazy method that could be done far better in POE, and no I don't mean playing more melee keyboard piano like the whole warcry abomination currently present.

POE prides itself on "we don't want to lock you into a certain playstyle based on class", so the defensive support needs to be provided through the melee gems themselves and/or certain uniques or rare implicit modifiers that clearly will ONLY benefit a melee range playstyle.

At best POE provides some passive defensive tools through certain ascendancies like jugg and champ, which is why those melee ascendancies dominate, but even they get deleted all the time because they actually want to feel like a melee archetype in an ARPG. Therefore, those defensive ascendancy bonuses are also grossly inadequate.

And everything I just said is 100x worse in POE2 based on recent streamer melee playthroughs. At this point one can only assume this is the intended path and melee gameplay is one big in-house joke of "ya whatever include it in the game, but we don't care really."

Why do you think melee needs to get hit? No matter if you play melee or ranged, you still try your hardest to not get hit, because thats the best defense in PoE. You scale your AoE for mapping and you scale "player skill" to avoid bosses attacks. YOu do not try to facetank in this game. The moment you do, you lose (unless you are able to throw 10-20 mirrors into immortal build)

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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SerialF wrote:

anyx after 10 pages has still not yet understood that league starter is the game for most people.

What exactly does "league starter" even mean to you? To be stuck on a gear level for white or low yellow maps for eternity? Cause that's roughly what i see when i look at the profiles of people complaining here. Stuck at a gear level you can surpass in like 12 hours of net playtime with a minimum amount of knowledge and yet they are acting like they know it all.

could answer you but you dont like definitions. pointless.

and you play standard cause you dont like farming gear in trade league. the irony

you dont need 10-20 mirrors. Look at carn's slayer. No problem with tanking most of the stuff in SSF HC envirnoment. Fortify is and will be a joke even with 40 stacks this league, when it lasts 6-10s. I do not understand why they dont make it hit based instead of time based. You could lose 1 fortify stack each 200-500 dmg you take(too lazy to do the math, so maybe even more).

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Sameen_Shaw wrote:

you dont need 10-20 mirrors. Look at carn's slayer. No problem with tanking most of the stuff in SSF HC envirnoment. Fortify is and will be a joke even with 40 stacks this league, when it lasts 6-10s. I do not understand why they dont make it hit based instead of time based. You could lose 1 fortify stack each 200-500 dmg you take(too lazy to do the math, so maybe even more).

You are upset it las ts 6-10 seconds while you can hit once every 6-10 seconds and keep it up all the time? How the hell you play this game to not be able to keep 6 second buff that refreshes every time you hit?