Melee changes in Necropolis?

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it would not make sense to nerf all WarCries.

Everything makes perfect sense if you realize that a current and remaining goal of POE1 development IS to make melee gameplay increasingly punishing, weak, and convoluted with keyboard piano garbage.

Melee gameplay is enjoyed by a very small percentage of endgame POE players? How about we make it smaller? How about we make statistically near zero and if those previous melee players were addicted enough they will just play another archetype while paying us for more MTX that increasingly crashes and slows their computer?

Too obvious? Follow the money

To paraphrase a statement from "the act man" on youtube who makes some great game critique videos, including this one from last fall about D4:

"all of blizzard's development decisions together make perfect sense if the goal IS to make D4 a terrible gameplay experience, but yet retain the player for maximum profit"

On a side note: I was researching some storm brand templar builds last night who could easily reach low millions of DPS, and the most expensive item there (on standard) is the void battery unique wand for 100 chaos ? ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS given what I would have to pay for a melee physical scepter that sizably beats the terrible scepter uniques present in the game

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mnieradko wrote:

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it would not make sense to nerf all WarCries.

Everything makes perfect sense if you realize that a current and remaining goal of POE1 development IS to make melee gameplay increasingly punishing, weak, and convoluted with keyboard piano garbage.

Im sure that GGG goal.

"

mnieradko wrote:

"

it would not make sense to nerf all WarCries.

Everything makes perfect sense if you realize that a current and remaining goal of POE1 development IS to make melee gameplay increasingly punishing, weak, and convoluted with keyboard piano garbage.

Melee gameplay is enjoyed by a very small percentage of endgame POE players? How about we make it smaller? How about we make statistically near zero and if those previous melee players were addicted enough they will just play another archetype while paying us for more MTX that increasingly crashes and slows their computer?

Too obvious? Follow the money

To paraphrase a statement from "the act man" on youtube who makes some great game critique videos, including this one from last fall about D4:

"all of blizzard's development decisions together make perfect sense if the goal IS to make D4 a terrible gameplay experience, but yet retain the player for maximum profit"

On a side note: I was researching some storm brand templar builds last night who could easily reach low millions of DPS, and the most expensive item there (on standard) is the void battery unique wand for 100 chaos ? ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS given what I would have to pay for a melee physical scepter that sizably beats the terrible scepter uniques present in the game

That doesn't make sense. Pretty sure GGG is not trying to sabotage their own game. There have been a number of improvements for close range builds over the years. However it seems like game is built to use speed and memorization of monster attacks to survive, moreso than a build. As they add difficulty, with that goal in mind, it seems close range melee sometimes gets forgotten about.

Truly doubt melee oversight is intended. I then hope the player base is heard and these auto-cast spells and warcries are given a little more thought and tweaked mid-league.

It never fails, does it?

New league is announced. Patch notes are released. TRU MELEE DYHARDZ look at patch notes and ask "DID MELEE GET BUFFED TO DEAL TWENTY TIMES THE DAMAGE OF ALL OTHER ARCHETYPES AT A QUARTER OF THE PRICE WHILE BEING COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IMMUNE TO ANY AND ALL FORMS OF DAMAGE? NO? LEAGUE TRASH, GGG EVIL CYNICAL CAPITALIST PIGDOGS, PATH OF EXILE LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE, WHY IS TRU MELEE NOT THE ONLY POSSIBLE VIABLE BOSSKILL STRAT YET"

At this point I honestly kinna hope none of the TRU MELEE DYHARDZ make the jump to PoE2. I know better, they'll come to the new game and constantly screech and kvetch and caterwaul about how TRU MELEE isn't the only viable bosskill option while also complaining about how Click To Bonk single-target TRU MELEE attacks aren't able to clear packs twice as fast - at a minimum - as the strongest AoE-centric builds while also taking only five percent health damage from the strongest boss slams in the game without any active mitigation whatsoever - and that's five percent maximum.

Grinding Gear could release a league where the damage of every non-Click-To-Bonk TRU MELEE skill was reduced by ninety-eight percent and TRU MELEE people still wouldn't be happy. They quite seriously cannot win with this crowd. There is no amount of ludicrous power imbalance that would be extreme enough for TRU MELEE DYHARDZ.

So why even try?

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1453R wrote:

So why even try?

Indeed. Thats why they stayed silent about it for like 10 leagues now ^ ^

"

1453R wrote:

It never fails, does it?

New league is announced. Patch notes are released. TRU MELEE DYHARDZ look at patch notes and ask "DID MELEE GET BUFFED TO DEAL TWENTY TIMES THE DAMAGE OF ALL OTHER ARCHETYPES AT A QUARTER OF THE PRICE WHILE BEING COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY IMMUNE TO ANY AND ALL FORMS OF DAMAGE? NO? LEAGUE TRASH, GGG EVIL CYNICAL CAPITALIST PIGDOGS, PATH OF EXILE LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE, WHY IS TRU MELEE NOT THE ONLY POSSIBLE VIABLE BOSSKILL STRAT YET"

At this point I honestly kinna hope none of the TRU MELEE DYHARDZ make the jump to PoE2. I know better, they'll come to the new game and constantly screech and kvetch and caterwaul about how TRU MELEE isn't the only viable bosskill option while also complaining about how Click To Bonk single-target TRU MELEE attacks aren't able to clear packs twice as fast - at a minimum - as the strongest AoE-centric builds while also taking only five percent health damage from the strongest boss slams in the game without any active mitigation whatsoever - and that's five percent maximum.

Grinding Gear could release a league where the damage of every non-Click-To-Bonk TRU MELEE skill was reduced by ninety-eight percent and TRU MELEE people still wouldn't be happy. They quite seriously cannot win with this crowd. There is no amount of ludicrous power imbalance that would be extreme enough for TRU MELEE DYHARDZ.

So why even try?

Melee is roughly 10% of the player base if GGG's estimates from a couple of leagues ago still hold up.

Do you need to misrepresent the people you disagree with to such an extreme degree? You've written a completely nonsensical rant, ignoring all valid criticisms and straw manning them into reductive lunacy. All to use as justification for hoping melee enthusiasts never play PoE 2...? Not one person who's chimed in about melee-specific challenges has asked for anything close to your cartoonish depiction.

Melee in PoE feels great to me. I wish I tried Cleave of rage before it was nerfed within a single league of release though. Don't love totems, though I do enjoy the additional complexity often associated with navigating melee. With my 2-button TS build I offscreen wiped 12k wisps, 350% quant, deli t16s with beyond, legion, harb and boxes using an MF build. This was my least enjoyable time in PoE. Ranged builds are not for me.

Tornado shot got nerfed and the new versions of resistance flasks will help the average player be more tanky. This combined with easier access to more fortify should help melee players have more freedom to round out their characters to their desired level of DPS vs EHP.

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hmcg020 wrote:

Melee is roughly 10% of the player base if GGG's estimates from a couple of leagues ago still hold up.

And why do you think its low? We have minions, we have bow builds, we hav wanders, we have totems, we have casters, we have traps/mines. There are like 10 or more archetypes in PoE. 10% melee players? Yeah, thats a lot.
Or perhpas you thought there is "melee" and "not melee"?

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Aynix wrote:

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hmcg020 wrote:

Melee is roughly 10% of the player base if GGG's estimates from a couple of leagues ago still hold up.

And why do you think its low? We have minions, we have bow builds, we hav wanders, we have totems, we have casters, we have traps/mines. There are like 10 or more archetypes in PoE. 10% melee players? Yeah, thats a lot.
Or perhpas you thought there is "melee" and "not melee"?

You're point would hold more water if mine didn't refer to the fact that stat is comprised of everyone who's using melee skills. So, all forms of melee combined of which there's many. Just like there's many forms of casting, etc, like you've mentioned. If one were to drill down into what even representation could look like across the range of skills available, I guess you could hypothetically say that of the three main archtypes - you know like on the bloody PoE logo - melee could be 33%. This is not something I'm interested in doing.

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Aynix wrote:

"...perhpas you thought there is "melee" and "not melee"?

No.

"

Do you need to misrepresent the people you disagree with to such an extreme degree? You've written a completely nonsensical rant, ignoring all valid criticisms and straw manning them into reductive lunacy. All to use as justification for hoping melee enthusiasts never play PoE 2...? Not one person who's chimed in about melee-specific challenges has asked for anything close to your cartoonish depiction.

That's all I see here to counter mine and others valid points, which have been the same valid points for many years.

Can you imagine how many melee ARPG enthusiasts want to try POE and then they are told point blank:

1) melee builds can't go in melee range
2) melee builds can't stand still
3) you can't reasonably gear up as a melee (by finding most/all of your own currency) by playing a melee build
4) you MIGHT be able to get around the previous three points by playing this "Melee" gem tag skill that is a rare exception and instead fires or attacks from half a screen away (e.g. stage 4-6 reave), but even then you are dead if you stand still, and oh here are these 4-5 other mechanics you must juggle that casters and ranged/bows completely ignore.

Most who hear that kind of rebuttal will shake their head and go back to the game they came from or try another in the genre. Shouldn't GGG be kind of embarassed that both D3 and D4 provide more enjoyable (both offensive and defensive) melee experiences for the HUGE amount of players who fall in the spectrum between "ya i play like 1 hour a week" and "ya i play 8-12 hours a day bro"?

99% of the POE streaming community is towing the line at the horrible intended state of "here you must stand 5 screens away with this ranged or caster build and blow everything away and then collect loot" POE gameplay. As the old saying goes "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

And then somehow to blow everyone's mind the state of POE2 melee is even worse. Well hey if we live in one giant "everything is fine" streamer echo chamber why would we expect anything else except the logical melee progression of "ya we'll make everything even more painful" for POE2 melee?

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I then hope the player base is heard and these auto-cast spells and warcries

You know what, I think caster archetypes should share in the joy of using warcries too. Haven't you seen magicians in different fantasy settings wave their arms around mumbling a spell before it actually happens? Maybe we can call it "spell cry" or "arcane cry" or something? In a future patch we'll nerf all spell tag gem damage by 20% (multiplicative), and then grant you a 5 second "arcane cry" buff that gives you that 20% damage back. The casting animation takes 1-2 seconds, which is plenty of time for some mages or goatmen to rearrange your face.

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hmcg020 wrote:

Melee is roughly 10% of the player base if GGG's estimates from a couple of leagues ago still hold up.

Do you need to misrepresent the people you disagree with to such an extreme degree? You've written a completely nonsensical rant, ignoring all valid criticisms and straw manning them into reductive lunacy. All to use as justification for hoping melee enthusiasts never play PoE 2...? Not one person who's chimed in about melee-specific challenges has asked for anything close to your cartoonish depiction.

Melee in PoE feels great to me. I wish I tried Cleave of rage before it was nerfed within a single league of release though. Don't love totems, though I do enjoy the additional complexity often associated with navigating melee. With my 2-button TS build I offscreen wiped 12k wisps, 350% quant, deli t16s with beyond, legion, harb and boxes using an MF build. This was my least enjoyable time in PoE. Ranged builds are not for me.

Tornado shot got nerfed and the new versions of resistance flasks will help the average player be more tanky. This combined with easier access to more fortify should help melee players have more freedom to round out their characters to their desired level of DPS vs EHP.

Name one time TRU MELEE people weren't howling for GGG's blood and making all kinds of absurd ultra-cynical claims about GGG being worse than the Mafia with Machiavellian strategies to somehow bilk TRU MELEE ENJOYERS of their money while actively and maliciously seeking to make them as miserable as humanly possible.

Name me one time.

One. Single. Time.

I've never once seen it. Never ONCE. They don't buff melee, TRU MELEE people howl and scream. They DO buff melee? TRU MELEE people howl and scream. They add new skills to expand melee, try to sidegrade-buff it by offering options? TRU MELEE people howl and scream. They knock other skills down, making TRU MELEE better by comparison? TRU MELEE people howl and scream. They add a ton of new passives to the tree to try and make strike skills freaking relevant in a game where Click To Bonk hasn't been relevant for half a decade? TRU MELEE people howl and scream.

It does not matter what action Grinding Gear takes; they get the exact same reaction from TRU MELEE people. It never changes, no matter what the devs do. Therefor I can only assume TRU MELEE people have absolutely outrageous and thoroughly unreasonable standards of what "melee viability" looks like and would require Grinding Gear to quite seriously and very literally break the game to achieve. Something like a hidden support gem on all melee weapons that adds 1200% MOAR multiplier and 2000 base physical damage to any strike skill, and a hidden stat on Strength-aligned body armor that provides 95% damage reduction if only skills on a list of those considered associated with TRU MELEE Click-To-Bonk are equipped. Stuff so absolutely freaking beyond busted you could get TwitchPlaysPoE to clear Uber Maven with it.

Again - you don't think this is true? Give me one single example of a period in time when TRU MELEE people weren't spewing more venom and vitriol than Al'Hezmin.

One time.

One single example.

Don't worry. I won't bother waiting. We all know you won't be able to find one.