Mirror of Kalandra
" PREACH! I have been saying this in numerous threads and feeling this way since the very first cards came into existence. They ruin the loot experience! |
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" Seems like your hate is misplaced with div cards and should be focused on stacked decks instead Twitch: https://twitch.tv/artcrusader
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" The problem is the de-exclusivizing of drops which are supposed to come from pinnacle content, not the specific vector in which this is done. Even without stacked decks, Gamblers, Voids, and whatever else I'm forgetting, you can still farm a Nimis by running T14 maps instead of the uber pinnacle boss it drops from. That is a PROBLEM. |
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" Unfortunately I think this is too far gone in poe1, considering all div cards are made by supporters it would be really annoying to re-make all of them and get in touch with all the supporters that made them. | |
" everyone who is aware a mirror exists is effected by the existence and value of a mirror. its a loot hunt game, you are not only effected by loot you have found and used, you are effected by loot you have not found but could find. i feel like if people are not acknowledging that then i dont rly see any common ground to discuss this sort of thing on, because i think that is fundamental to an arpg loot system. the jackpot on the lottery does not only effect the 1 person who won it and have no effect on the other 10,000,000 who played, you cant just remove the jackpot and say well the lottery has not changed for the 10 million normal people who play it because they didnt win it anyway. the jackpot is fundamental to the entire existence of the lottery. " i completely disagree. an exalt or a divine doesnt do a great deal as an orb, its value mostly comes from its rarity and its use as a trading currency. exchanging one for the other on orbs like that which we find every day is completely different to messing with an orb that people with 10k hours played have not found and dupes the best item in the entire game. there is no equivalence there and you cannot say that another orb could just take its place and become that valuable and iconic. the poe logo is a mirror. " a mirror is currently worth more than 10 magebloods. it doesnt hold equal meaning to those things. headhunters have been as cheap as 30 divines at points when a mirror has been at 600+. a mirror has always been in that position. some items have matched it for moments in time and then fallen away. a mageblood was worth a mirror for about 3 months. it came, it went. hh came and went. an atziris disfavour was worth a mirror at one point. but a mirror has always been that thing for 11 years. everything else comes and goes, that 1 iconic chase drop has guaranteed poes lottery ticket pays out the big jackpot for the games entire life. by its nature it evades any shift in meta and that has meant that shifts in the game where everything else became worthless feeling never left the game without the chance that something truly insane could drop. a mirror has stopped the game ever feeling worthless in the way d3 does, and there have been times where it was essentially the only thing holding it together. |
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" Maybe you are being sarcastic here or joking? Obviously, "value" is NOT just market value. When I say they hold equal value for 99.9% of the players, I mean that if a player dropped a mirror OR a mageblood they would have an EQUAL amount of excitement. Perhaps MORE excitement from the mageblood because its something they can actually use. The excitement for the mirror drop might likely come from being able to DOWNGRADE it to a crap ton of divines for more gear upgrades, but NOT actually because you are USING the mirror. A mirror, for the vast vast majority of players, is a completely useless item without an extraordinary amount of OTHER currency to go with it. Players would sooner upgrade ALL of their gear, than use the mirror to get ONE piece of gear. The MARKET value of the mirror is so high because only the richest players use them (pretty much), AND they are rarer than any other item in the game both in terms of raw drop AND card drop AND shard drop. Those are what drive the mirror to be "worth" 10 magebloods....not the actual excitement or usefulness of the item itself. Real world example: The existence of the Bugatti Veyron has very little influence, pull, or effect on 99% of the world's car buyers. They could simply stop making that car tomorrow and it would have zero impact on the car world. Plenty of people know it exists, and its rather famous for those in the know...but that doesn't mean people are sitting there saving up to someday get a veyron: its just a "thing" that exists that will never be obtained. And if a random car lover were to be gifted a Bugatti OR a Lamborghini, they would be EQUALLY excited by both, even though one is worth 5-10x more than the other. So few people actually "chase" the mirror that it doesn't matter whether its a POSSIBILITY or not. Players actually FOCUS on getting those magebloods, or getting those hh's, or finding Divines / Fractured Orbs etc. The mirror is SO far away that it is probably the easiest item in the game to simply remove with the smallest amount of people being effected or even angry about it. Last edited by jsuslak313 on Jan 27, 2024, 5:34:56 PM
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"Seems like trade created that problem first - if the problem is people being able to get a boss-drop item without killing the boss. |
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" It's a....bit....different. With cards, the actual DROP itself is coming from somewhere else. With trade, you are still getting the item ultimately from its exclusive location. And furthermore, the player selling the item would still need to be a boss farmer, rather than a general mapper. Consider this: Shaper drops a unique. 1) The cards for that same unique can be farmed in Cemetery, completely bypassing any need to fight the shaper to get the item. This applies to both the buyer AND seller 2) You don't want to fight the shaper, so instead trade someone for the unique. YOU bypass the fight, but the fight itself isn't bypassed. I would argue these are two entirely different, unrelated scenarios even if they SEEM to be related simply because the exclusive drop is STAYING where it is in one of the scenarios, regardless of how the item is ultimately achieved. The other completely removes the need for the boss to exist in the first place. Last edited by jsuslak313 on Jan 27, 2024, 8:18:55 PM
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"Yes I know what divination cards are. Clearly there are differences mechanically. But what's the functional difference with respect to the players and the stated problem? Let's say farm up a bunch of currency in...T14 maps since that was the given example. You use that currency to buy an item off someone, that they got from a boss with their tailored boss-killing character that is having no trouble with that boss encounter. Have you not, in effect, "farmed that item in T14 maps instead of the uber pinnacle boss it drops from"? That boss-killing player can put as many of these items into circulation as they have hours to play the game. Those items will definitely not only be being used by people who have "earned" it themselves by killing the boss. So if people who didn't kill the boss being able to get the item through 'easier' content is the problem, then the problem exists as long as trade exists, doesn't it? "So are you saying, to you, "the problem" is not that people are getting things they didn't 'earn', but simply that the boss isn't being played as much? I mean, I suspect that's not what Pirate was saying the problem is to them, but that aside...why? Is the boss offended at being avoided? Are they lonely? If more people playing the boss fight is better, why has it been squirreled away at the top-end of the game's content? The thing is, people are still going to play the boss fight, to complete that quest, achieve challenges, etc. Some of them will even play it because they enjoy it (imagine enjoying the videogame you're playing in your leisure time, what a radical idea). This idea that "the need for the boss fight to exist is removed" seems fairly unsound. |
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^No....the problem is the loss of exclusive boss drops. Period. At least when it comes to the issues with Div Cards.
Div Cards REMOVE the exclusivity of boss drops, but Trade does not. Totally different scenario with regards to the problem at hand. It isn't really focused on how you obtain the item, but rather in general how the item is obtained. The quote you referenced literally said "de-exclusivitizing the drop", which means allowing the item to DROP from places other than the bosses themselves. Unless I'm misinterpreting Caribbean's post...but I don't think I am because I totally agree with him. If he wanted the items to be ONLY gotten from bosses, he would have said something about making them Account-Bound. But no, he is specifically stating: "A starforge should ONLY drop from Shaper" (or whatever forge he drops). This is what makes and KEEPS it a Shaper-exclusive drop, regardless of trade. Last edited by jsuslak313 on Jan 27, 2024, 8:53:34 PM
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