Void league character

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CrazylikE wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

If you are referring to me: Im posting about game design here. Whether its "good" or "bad" for players to read it or not is a different matter. Having to read it is bad. And you say yourself "You have to read so much in this game to do anything": Obviously this is subjective but but from my POV this is a bad thing which could easily be improved upon. What we have here however is doubling down on the text reading by adding more text with far greater consequences.

You can't have a game like this without it being about reading. You have to read what gems do, what quests wants you to do, what items do, what currency does.

I dont have an issue with your examples here.

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CrazylikE wrote:

Eveything is about reading, and will always be about reading,

I do have an issue with that. They could easily improve this by for example making filters for text. This would help alot with Altars, Expedtion and map mods.

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CrazylikE wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

In SC - no. You cant even do unided maps if you need to read map mods.

If you willingly enter an unidentified map, you do so knowing that there's a good chance you will die because one or more mods will brick your build,

Many of my builds can run all map mod combinations - so no. In my recent SSFHC I did alot of unided rare maps T12/T13. Higher tiers I always IDed though, to not have too many stacked bad mods. In SC I wouldnt even think about it. Max penalty is 10%, not worth screwing around.

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CrazylikE wrote:

just like if you enter a voided map, knowing there's a big chance you will end up in void league.

I have two issues with this: 1. The knowing part. 2. The blocker (popup which can be removed with an accidental click) is too weak.

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CrazylikE wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

The game "randomly" killing you is expected behavior.

Only if you refuse to read and learn what mods your build can handle.

I dont see anything wrong with this behavior. Many (SC) players play for fun and not because they want to become experts at this game. Just read the many posts in this forum about players "randomly" getting killed.

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CrazylikE wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

The game "randomly" deleting your character is not expected behavior.

It's not random,

I quoted the "random" because its as "random" as most "random" character deaths. The point was to imply that players feel that its outside of their control.

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CrazylikE wrote:

you are warned by a mod on the map, AND a popup. What more can you ask.

Easy: The mod shouldnt be in the game.

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CrazylikE wrote:

You act as if reading isn't a thing in this game. How do you get anything done in this game if you read nothing? So silly to me.

Im well informed. However those who post their sob stories here in the forum and on reddit often are not. And I agree with them that this is "unfairly" done to the player.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

do you now agree that there is a broken promise?

That is not how I would describe it, no.

Then how do you describe it?

I describe it as the text setting general expectations. I don't treat start-of-game "hey new guy, here's a rundown of how the game works" information as exhaustive and encyclopedic, nor a "promise".

Let's just cut to the chase. If you accidentally got sent to the void league, that's where you deserve to be. I think voided maps are a great new feature in the game and hope they add more like it. Thankfully, you should now have learned what being sent to the void means and you can avoid it in the future, or maybe you won't cause you don't read anything.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I describe it as the text setting general expectations. I don't treat start-of-game "hey new guy, here's a rundown of how the game works" information as exhaustive and encyclopedic, nor a "promise".

So the game first builds an expectation. And then it goes against it. And I dont think this is right.

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CrazylikE wrote:

Let's just cut to the chase. If you accidentally got sent to the void league, that's where you deserve to be.

Guess we disagree on that. However my main point wasnt whether thats "deserved" or not.

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Zrevnur wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I describe it as the text setting general expectations. I don't treat start-of-game "hey new guy, here's a rundown of how the game works" information as exhaustive and encyclopedic, nor a "promise".

So the game first builds an expectation. And then it goes against it.

No, the game first builds an expectation, which is correct for 99.99% of all cases and thus entirely reasonable to use as an introductory summary, and then in the one niche case where there’s more to it, it mentions it in the map mod and also provides you with a big clear explanatory warning.

Hardcore exists only for prestige. It wouldn’t be very ‘hardcore’ of someone to moan about there being consequences for not reading map mods and ignoring warnings.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I describe it as the text setting general expectations. I don't treat start-of-game "hey new guy, here's a rundown of how the game works" information as exhaustive and encyclopedic, nor a "promise".

So the game first builds an expectation. And then it goes against it.

No, the game first builds an expectation, which is correct for 99.99% of all cases and thus entirely reasonable to use as an introductory summary, and then in the one niche case

What does it matter if its niche? If the character is gone only in one map out of a thousand then its just as gone as if that mod would be in 100 maps out of 1000. My take is that this is simply false and also critical information.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Hardcore exists only for prestige. It wouldn’t be very ‘hardcore’ of someone to moan about there being consequences for not reading map mods and ignoring warnings.

This is (from my POV) about the game and not about players. So wether Hardcore players are "really Hardcore" or not - this is completely irrelevant. The game shouldnt lie to players.

Edit: And as I wrote above - the help text for SC says you cant die - so this has little to do with HC anyway.

Dude, the help section is never up to date. This is a game, in SC you normally don't die, which is why they give you a HUGE fucking popup across the whole screen telling you what is about to happen. If that is not enough, then nothing is.

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Zrevnur wrote:

What does it matter if its niche?

Because that’s a good attribute to help decide what information it’s important to tell people up front, and what would turn your quick description of how the game works into an overcooked maximalist mess that may be more complete but is actually far worse communication.

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CrazylikE wrote:

Dude, the help section is never up to date. This is a game, in SC you normally don't die, which is why they give you a HUGE fucking popup across the whole screen telling you what is about to happen. If that is not enough, then nothing is.

But they could easily improve this. As has been suggested. Just make blocker thats harder to bypass like need to enter something nontrivial. Having to enter "Yes I am aware that in there my character <name> will be permanently destroyed if it dies." would do the job. Major upgrade over the current situation where you get a warning similar to other such warning over a trivial matter (lab exit).

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Zrevnur wrote:

What does it matter if its niche?

Because that’s a good attribute to help decide what information it’s important to tell people up front, and what would turn your quick description of how the game works into an overcooked maximalist mess that may be more complete but is actually far worse communication.

Do not agree. Important is pretty much: "Gravity" multiplied by "quantity". It being niche just means the quantity is low. So not considering "Gravity" makes little sense.
Example: Its like saying that death (or things threatening it) doesnt matter because it only happens once in a life. And incidentally this is quite fitting the context.