In-game trading system?!!!!

"

So congratulations, you have proved that the discussion in this thread isn't entirely pointless. You still haven't proved "Other games have successful marketplaces" is relevant here.

Nope.

One of the argument of the discution against AH or player vendor or central counterparty was not technically possible so can be added or not - relevant.

Now to the successfull.

Since rule 1 of terms, you can't have more than 3 terms in categorical syllogism.

But there is Sorit. So not a big deal to create complex sillogism with a conclusion: "PoE can have succesfull marketplace".

It is perfectly relevant. Other games can have successfull marketplace. PoE is a game and it can have succesfull marketplace too.

Still have not heard from you the reasons why it can't.

"

The spider cannot say that the sky is not blue

Zero caring about what spider can say. Sience knows what colours spiders, horses, dogs can see and can not.

"

Would WoW's auction house still be 'successful' if nothing were soulbound, for example?

Probably? Can't say it would, can't say it would not. It is purely mind reconstruction.

"

BambulaGTS wrote:

"

The spider cannot say that the sky is not blue

Zero caring about what spider can say. Sience knows what colours spiders, horses, dogs can see and can not.

I don't understand the statement about spiders at all. Spider has much more than 2 eyes and whether it only has hands or feet is not at all clear.
Furthermore, a spider with a 1mm head has more intellect than a small child and can carry out very complex actions...

So maybe you can summarize your thoughts better?
what this is about is not at all clear

"

BambulaGTS wrote:

Still have not heard from you the reasons why it can't.

Because I was not arguing that it could not.

I was replying to a post that was accusing others of logical fallacy, while utilizing the Motte-and-bailey fallacy. Rather than directly defending the argument, you swapped it for a similar looking argument that was easier to defend.

In response to that criticism, you...doubled down by going to an even easier to defend statement.

"

BambulaGTS wrote:

"

So congratulations, you have proved that the discussion in this thread isn't entirely pointless. You still haven't proved "Other games have successful marketplaces" is relevant here.

Nope.

One of the argument of the discution against AH or player vendor or central counterparty was not technically possible so can be added or not - relevant.

Now to the successfull.

Since rule 1 of terms, you can't have more than 3 terms in categorical syllogism.

But there is Sorit. So not a big deal to create complex sillogism with a conclusion: "PoE can have succesfull marketplace".

It is perfectly relevant. Other games can have successfull marketplace. PoE is a game and it can have succesfull marketplace too.

Rereading through the thread, I don't see any posts saying that it was not technically possible. Maybe I'm just overlooking it, but you just sound like you're saying "Someone made this argument some time, some where, so this will always be relevant to the topic." But let's play along for a second.

Yes, PoE could have a marketplace.

Depending on how you evaluate success, yes, it could even be a successful marketplace.

Now tell me why all of that is relevant to why PoE should have a marketplace. The original question of the thread was "Why can't GGG introduce an in-game trading system?" Nobody in the thread said they could not due to technical limitations. Every negative response was in the form of "because the botting would be worse" or "because inflation" or "because why kill monsters for items when you can just trade instead" or similar. Which are not reasons why it cannot be done, but reasons why it has not been done.

So, it seems we've established that they can. As before, congratulations!

What remains of the original question is the implied "Why haven't they introduced an in-game trading system?" that everyone replied to instead of the explicit "Why can't they?"

So we're back to you retreating to the simple claim, the Motte if you will, in an effort to discredit criticism of the complex claim, the Bailey: PoE should have an in-game marketplace.

"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

"

BambulaGTS wrote:

"

The spider cannot say that the sky is not blue

Zero caring about what spider can say. Sience knows what colours spiders, horses, dogs can see and can not.

And yet, even in the field of science, people still find ways to misuse provable facts. Even if something seems obvious, the truth may be counterintuitive. For example, adding lanes to roads/highways isn't an effective countermeasure against traffic congestion.

The sky is blue--or at least that's how it usually looks, due to what happens to light as it passes through the atmosphere. Reality is complex like that.

Adding lanes to roads/highways can make travel easier/safer--which causes more people to use the roads for a variety of reasons, increasing the amount of traffic on the expanded roadways.

Adding a marketplace to PoE would make trade more convenient--a simple assumption. But GGG didn't make it convenient for console users. "On the console version, the Trade Market tries to make it difficult to find items, but easy to actually purchase them." There was an in-game marketplace, but they kept things cumbersome.

And then we have the other side of the coin: if a marketplace is added to PoE and it does make trade more convenient, will we be paying for that elsewhere? They made trading Harvest far more convenient, no longer relying on the trust system--and Harvest crafting lost a lot of power in return. With convenient trade, there's bound to be a trade-off; where would we lose power from?

But none of that is about why PoE cannot have an in-game marketplace.

And even though we're all little spiders who can't see that the sky is blue, GGG still listens to us, and even tried to help us understand "blue" with their Trade Manifesto.

"

Jadian wrote:

They made trading Harvest far more convenient, no longer relying on the trust system--and Harvest crafting lost a lot of power in return. With convenient trade, there's bound to be a trade-off; where would we lose power from?

But none of that is about why PoE cannot have an in-game marketplace.

And even though we're all little spiders who can't see that the sky is blue, GGG still listens to us, and even tried to help us understand "blue" with their Trade Manifesto.

Yeah. People don't understand - everything has its own cost. Introducing in-game Marketplace mean the drop will be penalized and you will be forced to trade (even if you don't want) or grind like a madman on korean factory 24/7 to aquire some decent white base to craft. Meanwhile tradies will be even richier than ever. Okay. No thanks.

"

cursorTarget wrote:

grind like a madman on korean factory 24/7

Are we doing it already?!
No normal person would seriously want to achieve anything here. I listen to audio in the background, otherwise I wouldn't even bother with this embarrassing farming. especially with the lousy balance and one of the worst engines on the market.
I've gone through several guides and none of them work. Many things no longer exist or have been extremely ruined. and you can hardly get rid of the mats in standard ones. even if the price is good. Here you have to be online for days before someone wants the stuff.

"One of the worst engine on the market"
My dude, show om ONE other engine that allows you to spawn bilion projectiles at once and not explode your PC. Why do you think pretty much every game in existence puts cap on everything on such low stats? PoE allows you to reach even 50 APS with 10-15 projectiles at once while other games in this genre will allow you to MAYBE reach 5aps. Just an example,

"

Riorrrrrr wrote:

Are we doing it already?!

Thanks to the market and tradies we're ALMOST there. But playing solo and not using market is still possible, painful but doable. Implementing new ways to trade (even small improvements) shifts the game from the action RPG to the trade sim. For some reason community (at least tradies) can't learn. Harvest, Gwennen, Ashes / Omni are good examples of the nerfs caused by heavily abused market. Because trading minority wanted to play market instead of killing monsters.

"

One of the worst engine on the market

There are no alternatives. Please don't mention UE / Unity...

"show om ONE other engine that allows you to spawn bilion projectiles at once and not explode your PC"
but then this engine is definitely not one of them. Unless I want to heat my apartment with a graphics card in winter.

"But playing solo and not using market is still possible"
But why do I need an online connection and server lag?
I can hardly play without other players anymore because I really like other people. I still remember Realease from Return to Castle Wolfenstein. That was the best experience of my life at that time.

"Because trading minority wanted to play market instead of killing monsters."
This is absolutely wrong in my opinion and an epic fail. I can generate mats in the hideout much more easily than I can actively farm some stuff.
In other games, their own loot was something special. But here, as a causal player, I can hardly find my own gear. I like my belt, 2 rare jewels and my bone ring. because it is self-found... and then I look on the website and find many better ones and I can buy them much more easily without any effort...
That destroys the special feeling when looking for loot...

"There are no alternatives. Please don't mention UE / Unity..."
there is more than enough. What you mention above are certainly first-class projects that are more than worth the money.
Eve Online - 50vs50 battles or more are possible. There are a lot of particles here, very complex physics and servers have to do a lot. Even here I have more fps than in ugly deli maps with open abyss and 20+ minions. people play eve online with 2+ monitors and 2-4 windows. so the engine is damn good for the perfomance.
Warframe - it even runs smoothly on Nintendo Switch and the game looks like it's from the year 2023. Lots of details, particles don't create a Windows blue screen like in POE. And I almost always get more than 40-50 fps in large full group fights.

and cumputer games are about illusion and not about embarrassing calculations of trillions of particles!
Games should run smoothly and look good. POINT!
Because the graphics in games are a special art! Or do masterpieces like Overwatch1, Wow, Half-Life 2 look extremely good? and it's about generating as many particles as possible so that I have 0-1 fps in the boss fight????????

"

BambulaGTS wrote:

PoE is a game and it can have succesfull marketplace too.

Of course it can, but not on the premise of "I just want to buy and sell everything quickly, when I want to". The key here: What is a "successful marketplace"? A marketplace that makes the GAME better as a whole, or just a place that falsely makes you think you can trade faster and easier?

Everyone that has brains enough to factor in the GAME itself and the economy into this equation (and not just "I don't want to spend any time trading"), knows that certain things WILL happen if they just slap a marketplace into the game, with no restrictions. Everything but the 'best' stuff will become practically worthless due to way higher supply, which will lead to inflation across the board. If people think they will have an easier time 'making bank' with an unrestricted marketplace, I think they are badly mistaken. And before some fairy comes in here and says "shit already is worthless", sure, but it will happen MUCH faster.

The restrictions set on trading now, are time, effort, knowledge and the limits of people being offline. Take away all of those, and we would HAVE to see some other forms of restrictions, be that soul bound items, limits on how many trade you can do each day/at a time, a fee for selling items etc. In my mind, that it what it would take to make a marketplace SUCCESSFUL, aka good for the game as a whole.

"

Riorrrrrr wrote:

"show om ONE other engine that allows you to spawn bilion projectiles at once and not explode your PC"
but then this engine is definitely not one of them. Unless I want to heat my apartment with a graphics card in winter.

Guess you are too casual to realize that GGG engine is a masterpiece in its genre. Is it perfect? No. Does it have problems? Yes, every engine will have after 10+ years of spaghetti code. But compare it to even the newest "gems' in the genre like Diablo 4 where they are not able to add more stash tabs becuase game cant handle it...