Help me, I was banned on the tft and I don't understand what happened.

"

alhazred70 wrote:

"

MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam wrote:

Essentially now you are out of the economy. Good luck!

Its so sad that people think this is true. As if you need to make mirror items, high end crafts and bulk buy things that were never intended or accounted for in the design of the game to be used in such abundance.

.....

"You can beat the game naked at level 1 if you git gud"
"Real gamers play SSF HC and dont even craft because its unethical"


---

Anyway, MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam called it. No answers from GGG or TFT and just trolling by the community.



There is an interesting discussion to be had somewhere of how GGG decided they wanted limited trade, and then decided the limiter should be annoyance, frustration, wasted time, unresponsive sellers, scammers, handing over control to TFT instead of taking responsibility for the game elements.

Instead of, you know, simple things like trade limits, adding costs to trade like most MMOs, making account bound items when you use harvest, etc.


Its an interesting choice.

"

trixxar wrote:

There is an interesting discussion to be had somewhere of how GGG decided they wanted limited trade, and then decided the limiter should be annoyance, frustration, wasted time, unresponsive sellers, scammers, handing over control to TFT instead of taking responsibility for the game elements.

Instead of, you know, simple things like trade limits, adding costs to trade like most MMOs, making account bound items when you use harvest, etc.

Its an interesting choice.

Pretty much.

Part of the issue stems from trades always being up and all that's required from the user is to place the item in a tab (or rmb you get the point). Other games with a player driven economy have offerings that expire. This forces people to adjust their prices according to actual demand.

Bots or 'Arbitrage' is another big problem. If it isn't, then we should all be allowed to run bots. Not just a couple of people at risk of being banned? in waves? eventually?

Escrow contracts are another big issue. It should be offloaded to an NPC or bench. I will find the post where some guy was explaining this in detail.

Services are also a big issue. They will always be commodity. Not having them around is ridiculous. We use them all the time IRL why should a game with a player driven economy that tries to mimic a cut throat capitalist economy be any different?

So on and so forth...

I'm sure GGG has seen these suggestions many, many, many times. If they haven't... mods should start forwarding them to devs.

"

MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam wrote:

Escrow contracts are another big issue. It should be offloaded to an NPC or bench. I will find the post where some guy was explaining this in detail.

Here it is: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/in-escrow.asp

ROLF! this is gonna put jebubu out of the job. He might even have to start playing the game like the rest of us.

"

MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam wrote:

Part of the issue stems from trades always being up and all that's required from the user is to place the item in a tab (or rmb you get the point). Other games with a player driven economy have offerings that expire. This forces people to adjust their prices according to actual demand.

Your auction in PoE do expire though - its just organic instead of artificial. If you put a divine up for sale at a price and the market moves, your listing will be so far off the searchable list it is effectively expired until you, the mindful shopkeeper, take stock of your inventory and adjust to actual demand.

"

innervation wrote:

"

MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam wrote:

Part of the issue stems from trades always being up and all that's required from the user is to place the item in a tab (or rmb you get the point). Other games with a player driven economy have offerings that expire. This forces people to adjust their prices according to actual demand.

Your auction in PoE do expire though - its just organic instead of artificial. If you put a divine up for sale at a price and the market moves, your listing will be so far off the searchable list it is effectively expired until you, the mindful shopkeeper, take stock of your inventory and adjust to actual demand.

The 19th century has called, it wants its shopkeeping technology back.

"

Your auction in PoE do expire though - its just organic instead of artificial. If you put a divine up for sale at a price and the market moves, your listing will be so far off the searchable list it is effectively expired until you, the mindful shopkeeper, take stock of your inventory and adjust to actual demand.

I'm not reinventing the wheel here this is how it works in real life. It's only arbitrarily inconvenient in PoE, because reasons.

Other games seam to have pulled it off nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9gkasD1Rn0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x26T47NTiCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgSENw3E-co

TFT mods ban because:
you posted an emote
You compete with someone they know
You post on this forum/reddit/any other discord
You group with the wrong person and they find out
You scam someone, jk they don't care
You mirrored an item from someone outside their circle
You made fun of their leader getting banned for RMT
You joined another poe discord.

IDK what you did, make something cool up

"

trixxar wrote:

"You can beat the game naked at level 1 if you git gud"
"Real gamers play SSF HC and dont even craft because its unethical"

If thats all you could gleen from my reply to "you're out of the economy if you're not on TFT" then either you didn't read anything or you're just more interested in whatever narrative you prefer and are being intellectually dishonest trying to characterize what I wrote into something you'd prefer to portray it as.

My reply is arguing the hyperbolic idea that not being on TFT removes you from participating in the economy and thus the ability to play the game. It does neither, sure it does remove you from being able to participate in the sort of "underworld" economic meta game that TFT creates. But it doesn't even remove high end crafting tbh. Just look at whats his face with the 200+ mirror bow who's not on TFT and regularly giving them the middle finger.

Its a silly hyperbolic narrative. Again if you got "git gud" out of that well I don't know what to tell you.

"

trixxar wrote:

There is an interesting discussion to be had somewhere of how GGG decided they wanted limited trade, and then decided the limiter should be annoyance, frustration, wasted time, unresponsive sellers, scammers, handing over control to TFT instead of taking responsibility for the game elements.

Instead of, you know, simple things like trade limits, adding costs to trade like most MMOs, making account bound items when you use harvest, etc.


Its an interesting choice.

That IS an interesting discussion, I'm (no offense) shocked that you have discourse in mind after the non sequitur strawman you opened with. But I fully agree GGG could implement new and better ways to create trade friction. But I also fully understand why they are in no rush to remove the trade friction YOU PERSONALLY (and many others I'm sure) hate because its inconvenient and tiresome to rub up against.

This is not a new conversation though... More deliberate or designed in Trade friction often means bound items, untradable items, restrictions that, frankly most of you "super optimal economic PvP warriors" or whatever you want to call yourselves (the bulk of VOCAL trade meta players anyway) would FUCKING HATE THOSE MORE THAN YOU DO THE CURRENT META.


I would LOVE to know what the "optimal economic meta" players would consider acceptable FORMS of "friction" that accomplish at least the same amount of friction as current. GGG has called the current ease of availability of trade items "a crisis for the games health" (or words to that effect) multiple times... SO trade can't get less "frictiony" from their standpoint.

So what would you like to see? Because one thing I've noticed over and over in this tired old discussion is that you guys seem to always want a better system, but really what you want is removal of friction... it ALWAYS goes the same way.

"

alhazred70 wrote:

I would LOVE to know what the "optimal economic meta" players would consider acceptable FORMS of "friction" that accomplish at least the same amount of friction as current. GGG has called the current ease of availability of trade items "a crisis for the games health" (or words to that effect) multiple times... SO trade can't get less "frictiony" from their standpoint.

So what would you like to see?.

Really at this point I would settle on near any system that doesn't use annoyance as a game mechanic. There are a variety of ways to make the friction mechanical or a cost/benefit analysis where you cant be sloppy and throw 500 items in a trade tab with no cost to you.


-Add significant cost to list items and have the listing last something like 6 hrs to 48 hrs only.

-Limit things so that items can be traded/sold from account to account only once, and then put a hard limit on trades per account.

-Improve crafting and ability to find specific build-enabling uniques without trade to make trade not the absolute best and fastest way to gear up


I want the friction to be a clear, relevant mechanic that feels like I am playing a game, not awkwardly tabbed out spamming messages like Im working in a telemarketing company.

I dont really like trade and I dont like playing a trade simulator, but I think making trade intentionally not fun is probably the worst approach you could take.

You could also make people type out long boring sentences before any trades. That would improve friction. Doesnt make for a fun game.

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MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam wrote:

How did you go from not being true to trivializing the game?

Pretty simple really: I'm saying its not true that not being on TFT removes you from the economy; Which as a statement implies some very significant disadvantage in playing the game.

Most of the time in these discussions over the years, this hyperbole goes hand in hand with the idea that the most optimal meta (in this case TFT) is required to play the game. This is often outright claimed. In this case its only implied.

You can trivialize the game though in all modes with and without economic pvp, with or without TFT. So is the implication reasonable? Is it even true at all? No. There are people doing high end crafting without TFT, some of those people are outright flipping off TFT while they actively participate in the economy they're supposedly not in. So even if we assume that statement only meant "you're removed from the very specific economy on TFT" and it didn't at all imply any larger context; its still just wrong.

"

MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam wrote:

I'm not reinventing the wheel here this is how it works in real life. It's only arbitrarily inconvenient in PoE, because reasons.

Indeed those reasons are right here if you're actually interested:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870

"

MaturinGuardianOfTheBeam wrote:

Other games seam to have pulled it off nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9gkasD1Rn0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x26T47NTiCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgSENw3E-co

So basically you want much less friction (aka near effortless low risk trading that is easier to automate and dominate with bots (admittedly AI is very quickly going to make every form of trade in every game automated by proxy) and the incumbent worsening of rewards because if you make items easier to buy and sell you also must lower the drop rates of items that are supposed to be rare and powerful.

AKA you turn possibly the most thirsty repetition heavy western made game in existence even more sweaty and thirsty for everyones time... Unless you're a Path of Shopping player... in which case the game just ends on day 5 instead of day 7 after you have arbitraged your way to a MB or whatever your goal was.

Economy guys like Grimro are bored in 12 or 14 days of every league, and he has videos to make, his spreadsheets; and he actually farms maps instead of the much more successful strategy of flipping, why does the game need less friction? If most SC trade players are done in a couple weeks why on earth does anyone need easier trade?

I mean give it a year or two and you'll probably have what you're wanting from 3rd party AI tools. Then it gets interesting. Maybe GGG will wake up and realize they need bound items and separate modes for people who just want to play a well designed game and don't want to have to hit the fucking lottery to drop a 1 chaos shield by playing the damn game instead of economic PvP.