[3.15] Pathfinder ranger explosive concoction I NEED HELP

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Grimstone wrote:

overall it feel very lack luster in maps if you going hit build. making feel its intended for ignite spread and as its very limited on the ranger side to get that up, im gonna put this build on ice for now. tried several things.

Single target:
Crit worked nice for longer fights, but felt the damage was lacking a lot.
Did a test with all all 3 utility flasks and had extra ignate and ailment chance and the taming single target felt better. but nothing amazing. also tried march of the legion, with wrath, anger and herald of ice and thunder. and trinty sadly even with flasks and the dmg on cold and lightning failed to trigger enough to sustain full trinity.

Map: just felt so underwhelming tried to scale aoe no big difference and anything exluding dying sun that i could think of. for being a skilled designed for pathfinder i found it subpar to any other build pathfinder can pull off with half the investment needed.

TLDR: for this gem to work well i feel it would need a lot of gem level ignite prolif and conversion to fire. spent 15h testing it out and that's what i have gathered so far. will revisit the skill at a later date as i just love the idea of it but sadly i dont deliver for me as it is now.

I think pathfinder is mostly bait for this build, for trinity you only need two elements so you can use two topaz flasks instead of sapphire+topaz and forgo cold damage completely.

This means you can easily go raider which has way more damage and better defensives+speed.

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Karriane wrote:

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Grimstone wrote:

overall it feel very lack luster in maps if you going hit build. making feel its intended for ignite spread and as its very limited on the ranger side to get that up, im gonna put this build on ice for now. tried several things.

Single target:
Crit worked nice for longer fights, but felt the damage was lacking a lot.
Did a test with all all 3 utility flasks and had extra ignate and ailment chance and the taming single target felt better. but nothing amazing. also tried march of the legion, with wrath, anger and herald of ice and thunder. and trinty sadly even with flasks and the dmg on cold and lightning failed to trigger enough to sustain full trinity.

Map: just felt so underwhelming tried to scale aoe no big difference and anything exluding dying sun that i could think of. for being a skilled designed for pathfinder i found it subpar to any other build pathfinder can pull off with half the investment needed.

TLDR: for this gem to work well i feel it would need a lot of gem level ignite prolif and conversion to fire. spent 15h testing it out and that's what i have gathered so far. will revisit the skill at a later date as i just love the idea of it but sadly i dont deliver for me as it is now.

I think pathfinder is mostly bait for this build, for trinity you only need two elements so you can use two topaz flasks instead of sapphire+topaz and forgo cold damage completely.

This means you can easily go raider which has way more damage and better defensives+speed.

I disagree, I think pathfinder has a lot going for it for this skill. Most of raider's damage is scaled through attack speed which is clunky with the flask charges used. Pathfinder can use and maintain dying sun, which is 3-4 extra projectiles on shotgunning skill, so lots more single target sustained dps. Plus by going all in on flasks and being able to maintain their uptime as well as attack, you theoretically don't even need to grab resistance affixes on your gear. And the flasks are providing a ton of less ele damage taken, and less phys taken if you use taste of hate.

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cbasz wrote:

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Karriane wrote:

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Grimstone wrote:

overall it feel very lack luster in maps if you going hit build. making feel its intended for ignite spread and as its very limited on the ranger side to get that up, im gonna put this build on ice for now. tried several things.

Single target:
Crit worked nice for longer fights, but felt the damage was lacking a lot.
Did a test with all all 3 utility flasks and had extra ignate and ailment chance and the taming single target felt better. but nothing amazing. also tried march of the legion, with wrath, anger and herald of ice and thunder. and trinty sadly even with flasks and the dmg on cold and lightning failed to trigger enough to sustain full trinity.

Map: just felt so underwhelming tried to scale aoe no big difference and anything exluding dying sun that i could think of. for being a skilled designed for pathfinder i found it subpar to any other build pathfinder can pull off with half the investment needed.

TLDR: for this gem to work well i feel it would need a lot of gem level ignite prolif and conversion to fire. spent 15h testing it out and that's what i have gathered so far. will revisit the skill at a later date as i just love the idea of it but sadly i dont deliver for me as it is now.

I think pathfinder is mostly bait for this build, for trinity you only need two elements so you can use two topaz flasks instead of sapphire+topaz and forgo cold damage completely.

This means you can easily go raider which has way more damage and better defensives+speed.

I disagree, I think pathfinder has a lot going for it for this skill. Most of raider's damage is scaled through attack speed which is clunky with the flask charges used. Pathfinder can use and maintain dying sun, which is 3-4 extra projectiles on shotgunning skill, so lots more single target sustained dps. Plus by going all in on flasks and being able to maintain their uptime as well as attack, you theoretically don't even need to grab resistance affixes on your gear. And the flasks are providing a ton of less ele damage taken, and less phys taken if you use taste of hate.

Perhaps you're correct, however the dying sun thing will only happen much later which means raider is potentially better until that point.

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Karriane wrote:

Perhaps you're correct, however the dying sun thing will only happen much later which means raider is potentially better until that point.

I mean yeah I think it goes without saying that pathfinder needs its unique flasks to be any good. Definitely not an optimal league starter

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cbasz wrote:

I disagree, I think pathfinder has a lot going for it for this skill. Most of raider's damage is scaled through attack speed which is clunky with the flask charges used. Pathfinder can use and maintain dying sun, which is 3-4 extra projectiles on shotgunning skill, so lots more single target sustained dps. Plus by going all in on flasks and being able to maintain their uptime as well as attack, you theoretically don't even need to grab resistance affixes on your gear. And the flasks are providing a ton of less ele damage taken, and less phys taken if you use taste of hate.

But can we sustain both the manual use and the cost for EC of the flasks ?
Seems so hard to do, but it would be great to be able to have both effects.

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TesseratoSol wrote:

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cbasz wrote:

I disagree, I think pathfinder has a lot going for it for this skill. Most of raider's damage is scaled through attack speed which is clunky with the flask charges used. Pathfinder can use and maintain dying sun, which is 3-4 extra projectiles on shotgunning skill, so lots more single target sustained dps. Plus by going all in on flasks and being able to maintain their uptime as well as attack, you theoretically don't even need to grab resistance affixes on your gear. And the flasks are providing a ton of less ele damage taken, and less phys taken if you use taste of hate.

But can we sustain both the manual use and the cost for EC of the flasks ?
Seems so hard to do, but it would be great to be able to have both effects.

Yeah it's doable, reduced flask charges used from the passive tree and belt all reduce EC's charge consumption. You can get 35% from that, plus an extra 12% from EC's helm enchant. I did the math for my own planned version (willing to go into more detail if you're interested) and I get 12.5 flask charges used per second vs 10.68 gained. Which means you have to stand still for 10 seconds holding down the attack and pressing flasks on cooldown in order to eventually run out. However, realistically you'll want to move and dodge, which should be enough time to make the difference (every second not spent attacking, but still using flasks on cooldown, is a net +3 charges). If it's still concerning, you can always just fit in an overflowing chalice.

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cbasz wrote:

Yeah it's doable, reduced flask charges used from the passive tree and belt all reduce EC's charge consumption. You can get 35% from that, plus an extra 12% from EC's helm enchant. I did the math for my own planned version (willing to go into more detail if you're interested) and I get 12.5 flask charges used per second vs 10.68 gained. Which means you have to stand still for 10 seconds holding down the attack and pressing flasks on cooldown in order to eventually run out. However, realistically you'll want to move and dodge, which should be enough time to make the difference (every second not spent attacking, but still using flasks on cooldown, is a net +3 charges). If it's still concerning, you can always just fit in an overflowing chalice.

Well, it may work so. Even more with the 20% chance to not consume charges, from Nature's Boon, unless your math already counts with it, and its still good.
Share with us your idea, or by pm if u prefer.
For me, I dont have any concrete idea, but I did some draft of a tree: https://pastebin.com/8EGyLeCr
Maybe i'll remove some nodes to build a cluster jewel tree, but I think its decent to survive, having 70% ele ailment avoidance, and a good amount of evasion plus some ele res to make gearing less stressful.

Even as raider, the damage falls off massively in maps - there's just a significant lack of damage scaling and even with increased area support it's coverage is just not good.

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TesseratoSol wrote:

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cbasz wrote:

Yeah it's doable, reduced flask charges used from the passive tree and belt all reduce EC's charge consumption. You can get 35% from that, plus an extra 12% from EC's helm enchant. I did the math for my own planned version (willing to go into more detail if you're interested) and I get 12.5 flask charges used per second vs 10.68 gained. Which means you have to stand still for 10 seconds holding down the attack and pressing flasks on cooldown in order to eventually run out. However, realistically you'll want to move and dodge, which should be enough time to make the difference (every second not spent attacking, but still using flasks on cooldown, is a net +3 charges). If it's still concerning, you can always just fit in an overflowing chalice.

Well, it may work so. Even more with the 20% chance to not consume charges, from Nature's Boon, unless your math already counts with it, and its still good.
Share with us your idea, or by pm if u prefer.
For me, I dont have any concrete idea, but I did some draft of a tree: https://pastebin.com/8EGyLeCr
Maybe i'll remove some nodes to build a cluster jewel tree, but I think its decent to survive, having 70% ele ailment avoidance, and a good amount of evasion plus some ele res to make gearing less stressful.

Sure thing: https://pastebin.com/MQXzCQib

I've also redone the math a bit more (taking into consideration all 5 flasks insstead of just 3), if we ditch the vinktar and just put a topaz in the 5th slot and never use it (i.e. micro-distillery), we actually get a positive sustain even while spamming. This also works up to 3.7 attack speed, so we can actually get some degree of scaling from as.
I think chill/freeze are the important ones, and are covered by Taste of Hate (with 100% flask effect) and avoid ailment affix on either chest or shield. Shock and Ignite would be removed from regular flask usage via Master Alchemist. The goal is to have taste of hate, dying sun, and atziri's promise automatically pop on cooldown, then I'm still deciding if I want to activate bottled faith myself (and use an enkindled orb) or also have it automatic.

Btw your pastebin code is invalid for some reason

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cbasz wrote:

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TesseratoSol wrote:

"

cbasz wrote:

Yeah it's doable, reduced flask charges used from the passive tree and belt all reduce EC's charge consumption. You can get 35% from that, plus an extra 12% from EC's helm enchant. I did the math for my own planned version (willing to go into more detail if you're interested) and I get 12.5 flask charges used per second vs 10.68 gained. Which means you have to stand still for 10 seconds holding down the attack and pressing flasks on cooldown in order to eventually run out. However, realistically you'll want to move and dodge, which should be enough time to make the difference (every second not spent attacking, but still using flasks on cooldown, is a net +3 charges). If it's still concerning, you can always just fit in an overflowing chalice.

Well, it may work so. Even more with the 20% chance to not consume charges, from Nature's Boon, unless your math already counts with it, and its still good.
Share with us your idea, or by pm if u prefer.
For me, I dont have any concrete idea, but I did some draft of a tree: https://pastebin.com/8EGyLeCr
Maybe i'll remove some nodes to build a cluster jewel tree, but I think its decent to survive, having 70% ele ailment avoidance, and a good amount of evasion plus some ele res to make gearing less stressful.

Sure thing: https://pastebin.com/MQXzCQib

I've also redone the math a bit more (taking into consideration all 5 flasks insstead of just 3), if we ditch the vinktar and just put a topaz in the 5th slot and never use it (i.e. micro-distillery), we actually get a positive sustain even while spamming. This also works up to 3.7 attack speed, so we can actually get some degree of scaling from as.
I think chill/freeze are the important ones, and are covered by Taste of Hate (with 100% flask effect) and avoid ailment affix on either chest or shield. Shock and Ignite would be removed from regular flask usage via Master Alchemist. The goal is to have taste of hate, dying sun, and atziri's promise automatically pop on cooldown, then I'm still deciding if I want to activate bottled faith myself (and use an enkindled orb) or also have it automatic.

Btw your pastebin code is invalid for some reason

Your tree is similar to mine, but I really liked your cluster jewell tree, and probably will do the same. The flasks concern seems great to me, we will have great survivability, and in theory have some good dps. But I prefer to focus the avoidance in the tree and gear than by utilizng Master Alchemist, I think Master Surgeon and Veteran Bowyer are too good to not to take.

Strangely I also couldn't use my own pastebin code,
the only way seems to be the full code.

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