Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

"
DoEFotGS wrote:
"
Incarcerated wrote:
yeah so fun to get perfect gear in 2 days and ruining league


Is THAT problem?

You have no other games or stuff IRL to do? It's just a game. Game must be fun. I know that 'fun' is very different for all of us, but why exactly a somebody 'fun' must be cutted?

Harvest is powerful... because other 'crafting' sourse are not or less powerful. So, maybe they should rethink all crafting procesess or phylosophy entirely?

About two days ago I had imprudence of pressing 'show all loot' button after harbinger encounter on well rolled t16 map with beyond mod. Game just freezed about a two second. For every time I pressed the button, because amount of loot that names was rendered is insane. More insane is how many worth drop I had in the end. Nothing. Besides currency shards I have nothing to pick up.

This is a problem, not actual craft in gambling world.


Next time you quote a reply thread, make sure the person you're quoting actually said the thing you've edited your quote down to.
"
Excaliber198 wrote:
Holding out for huge compensatory buffs to under-utilized skills that need mirror-tier gear in order to be viable (ie. most of them).

Either that or going back to playing the first ~2-3 weeks and stopping due to currency inflation, prohibitively-expensive build-enabling uniques, redundant metas revolving around broken mechanics and skills like Valdo harby farming with BV HH builds, currency bots etc etc. Ya know: the stuff they should actually be paying attention to. > 200 active skill gems (a guess) and we got BV, Cyclone, Carrions, CoCSpri (me), Wanders, BF/BB, some Slams, and Aura Stackers as builds that "work". 200 of these dang gems and like 20 of them will get you through red maps.

Harvest, as it is now, gives people with 50+ ex budgets (probably around 5% of the playerbase, if that, just a guess) the ability to craft 200 ex items sometimes, but it also gives people with 5-10 ex budgets (probably the average) the ability to craft 10-20 ex items usually. People with the cash will probably go back to just slamming their rares like GGG wants. Me though? Heck no! I'd rather look at 3 ex in my stash than slam one and brick my belt with tier 6 stun/block recovery. Or my Elder Bleed Bow with T3 Lightning Damage. Or take my 6 ex and buy a Shavs or something.

Feels kinda lame that they're nerfing harvest into oblivion, a mechanic that helps mid-tier players more than others, while they're introducing and ignoring economy-warping mechanics that usually only 1% of players can afford/set up (intstacking wanders, HH, Maven orbs, etc.).

I recognize the game is not supposed to be easy; none of us signed up for a coast-through, theme park-esque ride game. That's D3. But, this seems like a lot of misplaced priorities.

Why isn't the baseline for a skill/ascendancies performance to be able to finish a T10 map, without dying, with a decent setup (T3 life all gear, cap res) in less than 4 minutes while also scaling into endgame? With an average machine ($1000 maximum) and 100 ping?

400+ pages of vitriol bashing the thought of slamming exalts should indicate some level of disconnect right? Just my $0.02.


You nailed it. It's exactly what I think. So many things that require almost no time to balance and they do absolutely nothing, league after league. I can't understand. It is so easy to make a skill or a unique less trash. Some skills are unthinkable to be chosen to a build as a main skill.
“There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
― Albert Einstein
How has it ever been different?

If anything 3.13 closed the gap between Large groups who pool resources to make mirror-tier items, and the middle guy.

Now the middle guy can self-craft an item that has maybe 4 or 5 of the mods he wants, and obliterates the mirror market which people undoubtedly RMT.

Makes a skeptic like me think GGG is the "Big guy" who takes a cut on RMT sites. Save me the "our vision" or "our philosophy" bullshit. The community is probably the happiest it's even been with a league, just based on retention numbers alone.

Last edited by AboveAverage#2434 on Mar 17, 2021, 2:47:06 PM
I don't get all these debates, why would you even bother ?

Vote with your wallet, the people behind this need income that their game generates after all. So show them who generates such income
If you don't like the decision, stop playing and stop paying, easy as that. You whine about stupid decisions yet you keep coming back, that's why EA or the likes are still alive.

On a side note with some tinfoil hats on, maybe they cater the 1% and the RMT because they generate the most income. More catering to RMT means more people doing it, more people doing it means more people to ban. And most banned RMT warriors would come back, paying for some stashes and start the circle again, easy trick easy income. What about casual players you ask? As I said, you keep coming back despite stupid decisions, that's why they will keep doing that
Last edited by longdoan#6327 on Mar 17, 2021, 3:19:10 PM
I started to wonder.

If GGGs main problem was the trading through TFT then there might have been an easy way to not nerf harvest but prevent anyone from spamming crafts and to sell or buy them as well aka. almost SSF Harvest mode.

That might be crazy but hear me out...
What if when you slam your item with Harvest craft it places the craft but as for example "early bloomer" mod and till it isn't fully grown you can't trade the item. It can take some time idk. maybe 2 hours till it is fully grown and then you can trade it if you want. So there problem of trading solved. Cause no one will entrust an item for 2 hours even if he got a collateral, cause it's a hassle.

If you wanted to go all out on similar design you might introduce an "orb of progress" which drops from Oshabi. And until you slam the created item with this orb it can't be traded. If this orb is also rare, than you would have to consider pros and cons when to use it. Or trade it to crafters.

There... at least two possibilities if "Trading on TFT" was the main problem.

Personally I don't care either way, but to have an option of r/a is better then not having it.
You won't get my money in 3.14 unless you introduce something exceptional. Like auction house, or tradable crafts
There is simple way to fix this, you can't craft the item with harvest until you run 100 maps, it calculates it when it's in the tash. After that if you trade item to next person, he'll also have to run 100 map before he can craft it with harvest.

Or

You can use xp to unlock harvest mods, maybe a craft bench with item slots(5-8 item slots). When you're mapping the item in the slot is collecting xp to unlock more powerful harvest crafting option. When you trade it or remove the item from the slot it'll reset the xp bar. And you have to collect again if you want to harvest craft it.
Last edited by alvilagiustokos#2876 on Mar 17, 2021, 6:00:28 PM
This is step in wrong direction, Chris. Reconsider it, you still have time!

Also, let me tell you a secret: do you know why this league was so popular? No? It was not because of Ritual, which is boring, and takes too much time compared to profits. It was because of 3 things:
-Maven('s orbs)
-Atlas 'ascendancies'
-and HARVEST!

Yes, this harvest, which allowed people to create items for their own non-meta builds (i'm trying storm call now, which is not too popular). And you are about to ruin it. Please, DON'T.

Number of replies under this manifesto speaks for itself, great majority is AGAINST nuking harvest, some of them even suggest how to deal with tft trading and other problems.

Listen to your players, its not too late!
Just giving my two cents...
I rarely had any good crafted gear in any league before Ritual, tbh. I never bothered with it because of the heavy RNG penalty. Whenever a good item dropped, I tried to sell in on poe.trade or pathofexile.com/trade.

This league I got lucky with a few drops and had some currency to use for crafting, so I gave it a go. Harvest was amazing for crafting/improving my gear. It was a lot less random but it still took me weeks to get decent gear.

Now I don't play for 8 hours/day and only have limited time. Metacrafting had always been completely out of my reach and I got to see high-end gear only in streams or youtube videos.

This change feels so heavy-handed and is, quite frankly, disheartening. I have since stopped playing Ritual...
The main reason is that I feel completely left out by GGG's idea of crafting and obtaining gear, or rather will be in the next league. GGG has always been great in finding some kind of balance but this change seems out of touch with the average player.
Even trade never got changes that made it easier to do in game. You need to alt-tab and use your webbrowser.


I don't find it entertaining to do SSF and want to experience the end-game without grinding like the 0.1%. I spend 2-3h/day during a league in PoE, which is already a lot of time, all things considered.


3.14 seems to be another league where I can hope for a are some lucky drops along the way and to buy gear on trade.

Edit: Another thing and a bit offtopic - whenever I see streamers claim that "content X is laughably easy" or "crafting item Y only takes a few exalts", I really wonder if they realize that they are in a very small minority of players. A lot of pleople (me included) rarely beat the hardest league content in the league it is released. Most of the time I do the post-nerf, watered down, patched version.
Ritual enabled me to use better items and actually beat some of the content when it was released. It was a GREAT feeling.

I could craft items that made the progress tangible. Taking a huge portion of that away seems like a step in the wrong direction, imho.
Last edited by Alatikus#7759 on Mar 17, 2021, 6:40:32 PM
Three points I want to make:
1. Harvest is pretty rare. You can run maps for hours without encountering one.
2. High tier harvest mobs are extremely dangerous for most (if not all) builds. Basically Harvest is one of the rippiest things in the game.
3. I need one specific mod (remove cold) and I am looking for it for weeks now. No luck whatsoever. I.e. harvest not only rare, but also random AF.

My question: what is there to nerf?..
The way campaign should be played by your second and any subsequent characters: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3772827
Last edited by Flying_Mage#3858 on Mar 17, 2021, 6:54:24 PM

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info