Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

"

ZoltanHagg wrote:

What Harvest you want to see in upcoming 3.14?
Voting is in progress now on Reddit.
You can vote on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/m6xfsi/poll_313_harvest_vs_314_harvest/

That poll is missing an option which is to Keep Harvest as is but fix trade and accessibility to those crafts

Just simply making no changes and keeping it as is, is never going to fly.

"

DoEFotGS wrote:

"

macacodoido32 wrote:

check dude's account and you'll have your answers

I don't need to check something. This is not about gear they, or I, have. This all about mentality.

GGG don't play they own game a long time right now. Exalt slam was a thing maybe at Perandus-Prophecy leagues and even then required some knowledge to not being a stupid move. Because of how poor 'craft' is. It's never be a craft. It's stupid gambling that nobody likes.

Torchlight series, and Last Epoch right now, have NPC that sell random things. You can see only base type, rarity and stats will rolled after you purchase one of that things and not before. It's called 'gambling' at 2009. And this gambling is PoE 'craft' system.

I don't played Diablo 2, I just have no PC in that time. I'm not share all the feeling that GGG have in mind for all awfull stuff like trade 'system'. PoE have no trade system. And we now in 2021, not in 2000.

What he meant is that account probably bots account trying to politically influence this thread. Their interest in nerfing harvest so they can profit from rmt.

Seriously, If you guys start to count how many of those so-called support the change, how many look like bots? They didn't even buy MT, have low lvl and full uniques characters. Yet, they are posting that Harvest make the game TOO EASY...

Would that hint to you the entire game already manipulated by bots? Harvest upset them the most. Now, GGG just want those bots to be happy against. I start to think GGG is having one foot in those RMT market.

Joinin' to the holy war of the Harvest, keep exalt spam for 2 hp regen away from us.

"

OdinNguyen wrote:

What he meant is that account probably bots account trying to politically influence this thread. Their interest in nerfing harvest so they can profit from rmt.

Somebody must be blind to not see what is really impacted by a current Harvest crafting.
I have checked top builds on poe.ninja - people have a very decent but rarely a perfect - mirror worth gear (no visible quality difference in comparison to previous leagues). Those are top players, 2 months after league start! Why they all do not have a perfect gear already if this is so easy to achieve now with a Harvest Crafting???
I have checked poe.trade - decent (but not perfect) rare gear is maybe more accessible and cheaper, but good gear is as expensive as usual.
I have also checked the RMT offers... and well - exalted orbs are now 1/3 of the usual price!
It seems that GGG lead by Chris cares for the PoE economy, but in the meaning of pro-players making money on RMT. SHAME!!!

Maybe it will be a good take to give some options that could solve the one or another problem that harvest has actually and make a poll for those changes. Including the actual nerfs in the manifesto. Its not all black and white, make a change and harvest is dead, or leave it as it is and then its to powerful (by means of ggg). Even if the result of the poll doesnt affect the final implementation at all, it would be interesting to see the opinion of the playerbase in raw numbers instead of a post-count in a thread.

There are so much possibilities to tweak the system without ruining it.

- account bound gear
- harvest can only roll up to T2 stats (for all or some crafts)
- remove tags from "unwanted" too powerful stats
- ...

But as GGG said it was too easy to craft mirror tier items with harvest - thats only true for a small amount of players. The majority doesnt have hundreds of exalts to buy crafts via TFT to make gear perfect.

Or like me - i dont want to invest heavily in items for the last 5% power i could get - even if i have the exalts. Gear hasnt to be perfect at all to play all content in the game. I dont want to interact with TFT, i try to avoid trading if possible (somewhat SSF aproach, but in trade league).
I m trying to farm harvest to get my gear "right". Not because i need it, all stats are totally fine to play. But to have a goal to work towards, to get a better res roll or life roll for example.
I specced atlas to everything harvest related, use zana mission etc. etc. and guess what - i rarely find harvest or get a harvest mission, and then the crafts are almost useless. And if i find some usefull crafts i get mostly decent T8 rolls.

It would be helpful to have a deterministic way to get at least the stats you want. When its not possible to get T1 rolls through harvest, i would be totally fine with that, then those items will per-se not be mirror-worthy)

Conclusion:
- make harvest a tool for avarage players to get their gear going and to establish build diversity
- restrict the power of the crafts in harvest so there is little to no abuseable harvest involved in creating mirror-worthy items
- remove tags of too powerful stats (like physical tag on explody crusader mod and give it only a influence tag), then of course you will have to look out which are the most powerful and abused stats actually, or which are too easy to get
- make it less attractive for players to use third party platforms for trading, either through implementing it yourself (like tradeable beasts) or through limitation of the craft-power which will result in less players paying extra for those crafts.

PS: i know these posts wont be read by the staff, so time wasted... but yolo.

"

Obright wrote:

Here's what we've learned from the "experiment" that was harvest league:

1) Most people would much rather play darts with the lights on.
2) People get really mad when you turn the lights back off again.

I'm really glad I had such a wonderful time during harvest league, but I could have told them all that and saved everyone the bother.

Oh well, next we get to watch the third and final lesson of harvest league play out:

3) You cannot intentionally undermine the greater part of your player base while you simultaneously depend on those same players to pay your bills.

It won't work.

...Especially after players realize they're just fodder for a vampiric elite class.

Games are supposed to be fun, and being forced to succumb to the whims of the elite in order to perpetuate an economy which is intentionally broken on their behalf is not fun.

That's WAY WAY WAY too close to most of our real lives. Why would we want to "escape" to that world in a game?

"Doing what they did" in order to "be one of them" and have a decent shot at crafting something even remotely usable is also not fun for most players, even when they DO have 16+ hours per day to play PoE. It's no more fun than working your way up a corporate ladder in real life. Not everyone is cut out for that, either.

Really, what this is all about is autonomy: they don't want us to have any. They want us to be totally at the mercy of no-lifers so that the economy can "stay fixed" for them.

Again, WHERE IS THE FUN IN THAT?

This guy has been consistently fair and constructive throughout this whole debacle, and I can't let this comment go by without applauding him!
I simply couldn't agree more with you Obright! Very, very, well said!

"

fancyfootwork wrote:

"

DoEFotGS wrote:

"

macacodoido32 wrote:

check dude's account and you'll have your answers

I don't need to check something. This is not about gear they, or I, have. This all about mentality.

GGG don't play they own game a long time right now. Exalt slam was a thing maybe at Perandus-Prophecy leagues and even then required some knowledge to not being a stupid move. Because of how poor 'craft' is. It's never be a craft. It's stupid gambling that nobody likes.

Torchlight series, and Last Epoch right now, have NPC that sell random things. You can see only base type, rarity and stats will rolled after you purchase one of that things and not before. It's called 'gambling' at 2009. And this gambling is PoE 'craft' system.

I don't played Diablo 2, I just have no PC in that time. I'm not share all the feeling that GGG have in mind for all awfull stuff like trade 'system'. PoE have no trade system. And we now in 2021, not in 2000.

Diablo 2 also had Gambling, you went to an NPC and you would buy UNID items and have no idea what they were, after buying Last Epoch this week, they have the same !

Yes, D2 DID have a gambling mechanic.
The difference is that they never tried to dress up that mechanic as crafting! They called it 'gambling', because thats what it was!

Harvest nerf would only promote RMTers. I think we see why Harvest was nerfed. Nice going GGG. If you want to make a gambling game then throw dice game in so I can double my Exaults.

Don´t nerf Harvest!