Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

the rules are the same for everyone... all that changes is new rules to play by next league.
even if they nerf the game to absolute shit it will be fun to see who gets past act 2 ...
it's like going in a univerce with new physics.

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nickwch wrote:

came here with a nice coffee on hand and reading butthurt kids whining abt how this has hurt their butt. Finished 300+ pages in 20mins, wasnt disappointing.

Pls, for those who believe "this shall teach them a lesson", just save your breath already and go see the world out there.

Same, some people have been playing Path of Exile for many years before Harvest came out and they had no problem clearing all content. ( I was one of them )

Just because endgame bosses are getting harder doesn't mean, we, as players, should benefit to the help of Harvest because it made crafting too easy.

It was better when mirror tiers items was rarer, the game is designed to be challenging and it's the reason why I'm playing it.

I hope Harvest will never come back to the game, I'm looking forward to play the next league !

Never seen a forum post hit 400 pages.
Hopefully this is some indication for GGG.

Who really knows though with the amount of censoring and absolute ignorance from this post I have very little faith in this team at the moment.

Is there some sort of email sign up to notify me when you unfuck your crafting system or trade or performance really?

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RainbowIsHere wrote:

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nickwch wrote:

came here with a nice coffee on hand and reading butthurt kids whining abt how this has hurt their butt. Finished 300+ pages in 20mins, wasnt disappointing.

Pls, for those who believe "this shall teach them a lesson", just save your breath already and go see the world out there.

Same, some people have been playing Path of Exile for many years before Harvest came out and they had no problem clearing all content. ( I was one of them )

Just because endgame bosses are getting harder doesn't mean, we, as players, should benefit to the help of Harvest because it made crafting too easy.

It was better when mirror tiers items was rarer, the game is designed to be challenging and it's the reason why I'm playing it.

I hope Harvest will never come back to the game, I'm looking forward to play the next league !

there we go... this is the comunity that i hoped for...

"

RainbowIsHere wrote:

"

nickwch wrote:

came here with a nice coffee on hand and reading butthurt kids whining abt how this has hurt their butt. Finished 300+ pages in 20mins, wasnt disappointing.

Pls, for those who believe "this shall teach them a lesson", just save your breath already and go see the world out there.

Same, some people have been playing Path of Exile for many years before Harvest came out and they had no problem clearing all content. ( I was one of them )

Just because endgame bosses are getting harder doesn't mean, we, as players, should benefit to the help of Harvest because it made crafting too easy.

It was better when mirror tiers items was rarer, the game is designed to be challenging and it's the reason why I'm playing it.

I hope Harvest will never come back to the game, I'm looking forward to play the next league !

This is utterly stupid, in those times NO ONE NEEDED mirror worthy items to clean the whole content. NO ONE.
Right now, the end game is IMPOSSIBLE to beat unless you play with those items or almost those items+ the OP broken build of that league.
So removing Harvest is WORSE to the game because It will NARROW the Meta builds and also KICK OUT players like me who hate being told WHICH BUILDS SHOULD PLAY.
What is so hard to understand from this???

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BlackPulsar wrote:

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RainbowIsHere wrote:

"

nickwch wrote:

came here with a nice coffee on hand and reading butthurt kids whining abt how this has hurt their butt. Finished 300+ pages in 20mins, wasnt disappointing.

Pls, for those who believe "this shall teach them a lesson", just save your breath already and go see the world out there.

Same, some people have been playing Path of Exile for many years before Harvest came out and they had no problem clearing all content. ( I was one of them )

Just because endgame bosses are getting harder doesn't mean, we, as players, should benefit to the help of Harvest because it made crafting too easy.

It was better when mirror tiers items was rarer, the game is designed to be challenging and it's the reason why I'm playing it.

I hope Harvest will never come back to the game, I'm looking forward to play the next league !

there we go... this is the comunity that i hoped for...

i throw flag at you.

"

Lvzb3l wrote:

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RainbowIsHere wrote:

"

nickwch wrote:

came here with a nice coffee on hand and reading butthurt kids whining abt how this has hurt their butt. Finished 300+ pages in 20mins, wasnt disappointing.

Pls, for those who believe "this shall teach them a lesson", just save your breath already and go see the world out there.

Same, some people have been playing Path of Exile for many years before Harvest came out and they had no problem clearing all content. ( I was one of them )

Just because endgame bosses are getting harder doesn't mean, we, as players, should benefit to the help of Harvest because it made crafting too easy.

It was better when mirror tiers items was rarer, the game is designed to be challenging and it's the reason why I'm playing it.

I hope Harvest will never come back to the game, I'm looking forward to play the next league !

This is utterly stupid, in those times NO ONE NEEDED mirror worthy items to clean the whole content. NO ONE.
Right now, the end game is IMPOSSIBLE to beat unless you play with those items or almost those items+ the OP broken build of that league.
So removing Harvest is WORSE to the game because It will NARROW the Meta builds and also KICK OUT players like me who hate being told WHICH BUILDS SHOULD PLAY.
What is so hard to understand from this???

I would understand if you tell me that the game right now is difficult to beat in SSFHC but common.. really ?

With these nerfs there's a good chance for the next league to be a crafting one, and if not the devs are good enough with balancing to scale it correctly with the craftings available.

Also no one is forcing you to play a certain build.. there's tons of non-meta builds that are fun to play and doesn't cost a lot to build due to players not playing them.

One last thing, if you want the game to get better then criticize the changes without shouting because complaining about my comment will not chance anything but take out your uncontrollable rage.

This will be my second post in this thread but I felt like sharing my thoughts on it from a different perspective.

For me, this game is about the depth and experimentation. There's a reason we have a skill tree that wont fit the whole screen, so many ascendancies and skill gems to choose from, and countless different ways to play the game.

I understand how hard it is to balance things out between all of this, and we all get that there will always be stronger builds that functions on a 20c budget to reach end game. Now I have about 8000 hours in this game, and I've been around since 2013, and I've done everything the game has thrown at me pre-harvest on solo self found hardcore. The reason I'm saying this is not for bragging rights - the point of me saying all this is because the game for me is not about killing x boss (and I understand it might be for some people) or clear all content the game can throw at me. The game for me is about experimentation. To take those underused skill gems and interesting ascendancies and make something awesome out of it. And harvest have helped me push the boundries of what would otherwise be theoretically impossible before harvest crafts, because a lot of these interesting uniques (like one of my personal favorites - white wind) that I love, sometimes feels out of reach if you think about the RNG-aspect of the crafting system pre-harvest combinded with a lesser used skill-gem or unique. I can actually push something that might be viable (might not be the strongest, but that's not what's important for me - hell, I played Berserkers for the majority of the league) for hardcore while balancing out my defenses in a reasonable way, rather than something that would take ages to be able to do. It's not impossible without Harvest, but for a big portion of the playerbase it might be out of reach. The point being that it excites me more to know that I'm working towards a progression (and gear progression) that's somewhat linear, and not determined by whether or not I hit those mods I need to even begin to challenge the end game bosses. For me at least, Harvest enabled me to experiment more, and that's why this is the league I've played the longest throughout since I first started 8 years ago.

There's so much to do in this game, and it's fun as long as there's new things to try out and discover. I know this holds true with or without harvest, but there might be a reason why people are still so active on the servers playing ritual league right now, and it feels like a lot of that (even though we got an amazing expansion as a whole) has to do with the ability to craft your own gear, to progress and to be able to experiment with new things that previously wasn't possible for the largest player base. My takeaway from some of the comments is that a lot of people who were previously uncomfortable with the idea of crafting actually started to craft gear for themselves, because it was fun and rewarding and they felt a sense of purpose and progression, rather than throwing currency at something hoping to get a good piece. What I'm taking away from a lot of the comments in this thread is that it just felt more meaningful than using currency as... well, currency - to buy items other people had found or crafted that fit your character just right.

And if I'm once again putting myself in a mindset of a newer player, time might be a big factor, and experience might be an even bigger one as to why they might feel "forced" into these meta builds, and that's killing build diversity, and it also makes them stop playing the league faster, because they might not have the tools to be able to farm these interesting items to make a decent character for themselves with the skill and ascendancy combo they might find interesting, because before harvest, that was not something they could do.

I understand that harvest might be an easier way to get to the actual end game for the average player, and I understand your thought process behind the decision, but I feel like it could've been handled better than this. A lot of the issues being brought up in this thread is more about not being able to experiment and try out the builds they'd like, rather than a shortcut being taken away from them. The way I see it - me and many other more experienced players will get to the end game no matter what, and end up with a strong build whether it's with harvest or not. Having good gear wont be the reason I stop playing the league, I just want to have a journey with every character I start. To actually feel like there's a linear progression that I'm in control over within a reasonable timeframe and odds, and I feel like harvest filled that gap.

This is just my take on it, and there might be some people disagreeing with me, and that's perfectly fine. Just make sure you make YOUR voice heard.

Dear GGG
Let me begin with the simple statement that I love the work you put in the game and the ethic core considerations you design the game arround.

Regarding to harvest crafting. If I consider the whole game, sure standard with the curret harvest crafting seems way to much. In a standard league it's ok powerfull and for league SSF the builds which were not a f* chance now is actually a chance and hardcore ssf i guess the same.

My biggest fear in the anounced nerf in harvest crafting is actually that if I as a player value not to play path of trading but just want to find my own stuff and improve as i go along I beleive that will with the announced nerfs exclude me from the different builds that i would love to try out during a league. I am a normal gamer with family and all. 99% of my limited gamining time goes to POE as I love the diversity and complexsity of the the game. I dont want to just optimise one build but prefer to try out different playstyles and builds. This is from time to time challanging but harvest made this more possible. So I fear that the nerfs is going at step back towards path of trading where i as a player is going to need to spend time on this (even though I would prefer not to) to get acess to items I need to try out different builds.

I can totally be wrong and will try out the nerfed harvest and keep supporting your great work. I simply just hope that you take into considaration the normal player with limited time when discussing these nerfs.

Keep up the good work

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Lvzb3l wrote:

This is utterly stupid, in those times NO ONE NEEDED mirror worthy items to clean the whole content. NO ONE.
Right now, the end game is IMPOSSIBLE to beat unless you play with those items or almost those items+ the OP broken build of that league.
So removing Harvest is WORSE to the game because It will NARROW the Meta builds and also KICK OUT players like me who hate being told WHICH BUILDS SHOULD PLAY.
What is so hard to understand from this???

There are currently a shitton of builds that can clear all content with like 5ex investment tops. This investment is mostly for certain uniques for the builds to function ( and some cluster jewels ) , and not for super duper crafted rares. Yes , there is ( in theory ) more build diversity with harvest because of cheap build enabnling rares , but GGG maybe will buff a shitton of skills again ( like last league ) and maybe we got some ascedancy candy. Just because you cant clear all content with a shitty glacial hammer build on a 100c budget it doesnt mean that you cant clear all content with another build. Look at FASTAF videos , he does builds which clear every boss in 1-2 seconds with full unique equipment.

You just need to craft good cluster jewels ( and guess what harvest still works on those , i would even argue its now more worth than last league to spam those jewels with the 60% increase buff ). So basicly nothing got changed in terms of power , except that you cant make a 1000million dps shit build with a trash skill , but that is up for the balance team of GGG to balance the skills.

The only downside i see right now it that the TFT issue is not even close to being fixed , since there are still a lot of abusable crafts left in the game.