Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

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bauermayers wrote:

Someone already debunked you, but just to point out how you're already making excuses if Ritual retention numbers are positive: "it's because of the expansion, and the expansion alone because reasons".

Unlike others, I can accept being wrong or accepting alternative explanations.

Yes, the "setting up the garden" may have been the driver of the poor Harvest retention. I accept this point. Similarly, I don't see why you should dismiss all the fun with Maven and Ritual as being potential retention element. They are extremely fun. It's probably my most played league, and I did not craft.

So yes, maybe Harvest was not detrimental to retention and maybe a big boost, but we players do not have access to this info.

You even know what, reading some of the more rational argument and listening to some of the more logical streamers, I am also shifting my position in the sense that while a nerf was still needed, maybe it did go too far. Harvest does bring benefits to the community and to some play-styles. It was simply becoming a necessity and taking too much importance versus jsut killing stuff. Killing stuff should be the best way to improve in an ARPG in my opinion.


I do still have a issues with many players for whom "easier" is their key mantra. When I don't have time to no-life, I accept that my goals should be scaled back for my casual playtime. There is no shame in not finishing all content every single league. It is not a god given right to finish the game or challenges every single league.

And yes, games may evolve, but then again some customers want the original spirit to be kept and don't want to be displaced by newer customers just because the boss is greedy and wants more money. Niche players do not have enough niches, let the masses play the more casual games.
If you go to a classical restaurant and ask for you wine to be mixed with Pepsi, I sure hope you get thrown out. The customer is not always right.

Manifestus XXI
Chapter 3:10
And thus were the citizens harvests plentiful and bountious. And the citizens used the bounty of these harvests to fashion implements and vestments of heretofor unseen splendor and might. And they took these implements, and these vestments, and joined battle on the denizens of the dark places, and of the in-between spaces. And the citizens laid waste to all before them. And thus began a period of mastery over the Realms of the Atlas such as had never been.

When ThriceG saw what unfolded, how the bounty of the crops and the abundance of mighty implements and vestments made light of the challenges he had set forth to trial and harden the citizens, he was distraught. ThriceG could see the inevitable corruption to which such ease and langour would lead, and he was thus angered.

ThriceG sent forth the Arch Angel WilsonChris and bade him spake thus, "Know this, thee citizens of Exile, that ThriceG sees your achievements, and your conquests, and is pleased by your actions. But ThriceG also foresees that you will become corrupt, and without soul, and bereft of purpose without challenge and strife. Thus He has ordained that your crops will be less bountious, and the count of your fruits and variety of your harvests shall be lessened. Henceforth, upon the next turning of the moon, thou shall have obscurred vision, and be stripped of prescience of thine outcomes. For only the blind may truly appreciate the light."

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I don't see why you should dismiss all the fun with Maven

All the fun I had with Maven was possible because I could get gear to even reach Maven. Guess how? Harvest.

Harvest is also what made the grind for currency not only bearable, but also fun. Why? Because I had crafting goals, so I knew what direction I was going. Were they 100% deterministic goals? No. It took me a month to create my explody chest. And countless fails in the process...

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Am3nti wrote:

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I don't see why you should dismiss all the fun with Maven

All the fun I had with Maven was possible because I could get gear to even reach Maven. Guess how? Harvest.

Harvest is also what made the grind for currency not only bearable, but also fun. Why? Because I had crafting goals, so I knew what direction I was going. Were they 100% deterministic goals? No. It took me a month to create my explody chest. And countless fails in the process...

Not every build needs Harvest to kill Maven. Good that it worked for you, but it was not a pre-requisite for everyone.

i rather get my items done first 2 weeks and enyoy the game than crying, sweating thru carpal tunnel to optain enough currency to buy my gear from those top 1 crafters who rmt.

and then enyoy the actual game and thinking of getting cool mtx to look cool on lioneye watch for rest newbs.

but holdup. ggg just say fk no. you need to bleed from every hole your body have for 3 month of league period to start actualy play the league

i havent still killed sirus. i just want to roam maps and craft, test for fun

i said this in december. if i cant have target craft then there is no point for me being here. im fed up for chaos and ex slams long before harvest came to game.


mark my words ggg. if you remove target craft. you dig yourself deeper hole.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

It's frustrating reading these posts knowing Harvest will still be OP next league. I don't know if you guys just don't know how to craft or want 6 T1s or riot. Because I tested many items at emulator using only crafts Chris says is still allowed and common currency and you are still capable of making tons of GG items. Harvest will be used. Used to add influences on your very deterministic double influenced chests by locking prefixs and spamming influences til you get the right suffixs. Used to make GG regular rare weapons and Jewels which still allow very deterministic adds. Yes it will cost more because you gotta scour more but huge potential is still here.

As usual when a nerf comes this is an overreaction. You will see. That's probably why devs are like not responding it's the same story every nerf and tiresome.

I actually agree with you, and to be honest, seeing how toxic those self-claimed "casuals" are, it wouldn't be a bad thing to see them quit the game.

First thing i did is to see what's going to be able, and saw many ways to still do things (more expensive, that's true).

What's funny is that people didn't complained when they cleared all content with multimoded explo chest, now they just want to have access to 10 times better items for 20ex.

Seeing all that baby's cries made me changes my mind, make the game for people who tries not for people who cries.

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peespipe wrote:

Manifestus XXI
Chapter 3:10
And thus were the citizens harvests plentiful and bountious. And the citizens used the bounty of these harvests to fashion implements and vestments of heretofor unseen splendor and might. And they took these implements, and these vestments, and joined battle on the denizens of the dark places, and of the in-between spaces. And the citizens laid waste to all before them. And thus began a period of mastery over the Realms of the Atlas such as had never been.

When ThriceG saw what unfolded, how the bounty of the crops and the abundance of mighty implements and vestments made light of the challenges he had set forth to trial and harden the citizens, he was distraught. ThriceG could see the inevitable corruption to which such ease and langour would lead, and he was thus angered.

ThriceG sent forth the Arch Angel WilsonChris and bade him spake thus, "Know this, thee citizens of Exile, that ThriceG sees your achievements, and your conquests, and is pleased by your actions. But ThriceG also foresees that you will become corrupt, and without soul, and bereft of purpose without challenge and strife. Thus He has ordained that your crops will be less bountious, and the count of your fruits and variety of your harvests shall be lessened. Henceforth, upon the next turning of the moon, thou shall have obscurred vision, and be stripped of prescience of thine outcomes. For only the blind may truly appreciate the light."

Well done like fried chicken. If only this entire would speak like this; the thread would be 500+ pages by now.

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Zepepsico wrote:

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Am3nti wrote:

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I don't see why you should dismiss all the fun with Maven

All the fun I had with Maven was possible because I could get gear to even reach Maven. Guess how? Harvest.

Harvest is also what made the grind for currency not only bearable, but also fun. Why? Because I had crafting goals, so I knew what direction I was going. Were they 100% deterministic goals? No. It took me a month to create my explody chest. And countless fails in the process...

Not every build needs Harvest to kill Maven. Good that it worked for you, but it was not a pre-requisite for everyone.

And I never said that it needs. You skipped the focus on FUN in my post. The same fun that made me stick around longer. And buy the supporter pack to show approval / support the devs. And to set goals for myself, other than possibly getting the challenges... And for the first time, allowed me to thinker with my own items, rather than going with the guides / top builds on poe.ninja... etc.

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Zepepsico wrote:

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Am3nti wrote:

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I don't see why you should dismiss all the fun with Maven

All the fun I had with Maven was possible because I could get gear to even reach Maven. Guess how? Harvest.

Harvest is also what made the grind for currency not only bearable, but also fun. Why? Because I had crafting goals, so I knew what direction I was going. Were they 100% deterministic goals? No. It took me a month to create my explody chest. And countless fails in the process...

Not every build needs Harvest to kill Maven. Good that it worked for you, but it was not a pre-requisite for everyone.

This game IS about build diversity, but your solution is "just play builds that don't need good items to reach end game". What a waste of an enourmous passive tree and 10+ classes with their ascendances...

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Not every build needs Harvest to kill Maven. Good that it worked for you, but it was not a pre-requisite for everyone.

This game IS about build diversity, but your solution is "just play builds that don't need good items to reach end game". What a waste of an enourmous passive tree and 10+ classes with their ascendances...[/quote]


150% THIS!