Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

These changes are not for me.. I'll check back in 6 months.

They don’t care about our fun or time. They only care about about our money. Not giving GGG another penny until I can craft at harvest level again.

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Thunderbus wrote:

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ZyxewNikoa wrote:

I think that you understand the issues with the current implementation of harvest across the various dimensions of power, accessibility, tradability/ease of use, and balance relative to the rest of the game's systems. I think that you understand the various directions in which changes could be made.

I think that you misunderstand what makes the game fun for many people, and I think you don't value my time. I vehemently disagree with many of the principles espoused by your manifesto, and am provided with a vision of a game that I don't wish to play or support.

By crafting your game you choose your audience. If I'm too casual for your game, that's cool, I'll go play something else.

Very well said.

Same here brothers, same here!

Well, i hope the 1% elites have enough money to keep the game running.

I rarely post but I feel my voice should be heard... these changes are not a step in the right direction.

Yes I agree Harvest is extremely powerful and I agree having to use a discord in the current state is a terrible way of doing things. What was done with Einhar selling an orb to capture beast should be something done to Harvest in some manner. Why not Oshabi selling an orb or horti-bench to sell single crafts on the trade website? (Because I know pricing stuff on your horti-bench will never be a thing.) But instead of addressing these issues you just burn Harvest to the ground?

You, GGG, are removing some popular and core aspects of harvest crafting without giving anything in return. Instead of completely removing these functions, why not make them more scarce? (Meanwhile split beast are still always breaking something most leagues, like at the start of Ritual with watchstones.)


And sure having Heart of the Grove as a fragment is decent, because it means my grove isn't wasted with one of the most useless fights in the game.

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Kasseopea wrote:

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bauermayers wrote:

300+ pages in, and you can probably count with one hand the comments that either like or don't care about it (my own first reaction included). Let's see if GGG will listen to feedback this time.

Be honest, how many times did you had to restart a sentence from bursting into laughter that contained "GGG will listen to feedback"?

Every time, and to be fair, a lot of feedback is actually whining about nerfs, like in the last balance manifesto, where a lot of people were saying summoner/poison bv/ aura stacker builds were dead just to be proven wrong after the league started. However, I think a lot of people may actually quit if they don't listen this time. Don't remember seeing such backlash before.

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rlauren2 wrote:

We get it. You don't like the idea of having an item editor in the game. That's understandable.

Alternate proposal - perhaps limit the augments and remove/adds to prevent them from rolling t1 mods. Similar to the crafting bench, it would allow casual players to improve their gear in meaningful ways while not guaranteeing that "perfect" items are possible via a guaranteed step-by-step algorithm.

limiting augments to not get t1 lines will make it just as useless..........

and people will stop playing because of it.

also, it's not an item editor.. it's literally the only thing that actually comes close to being able to call it crafting.. it's still full of randomness!
everything else is just gambling.. if i want to gamble, i'll go to a casino to waste my money and time put in to earn that money... and let's not forget, feel bad afterwards because unless you know how to count cards and hide the fact that you're able to do so and actually doing it... you will always lose money!

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Graas Hoppa wrote:

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rlauren2 wrote:

We get it. You don't like the idea of having an item editor in the game. That's understandable.

Alternate proposal - perhaps limit the augments and remove/adds to prevent them from rolling t1 mods. Similar to the crafting bench, it would allow casual players to improve their gear in meaningful ways while not guaranteeing that "perfect" items are possible via a guaranteed step-by-step algorithm.

limiting augments to not get t1 lines will make it just as useless..........

and people will stop playing because of it.

Unfortunately I agree with this. If you limit the Harvest to non-top tier mods or removing specific influence mods from Harvest, it will just become another Crafting Bench and players will just revert to buying gear or leave the game. The masses do not want to give up the candy now. Unless GGG counter-offer something else, people won't be happy.

Will this is my first league but honestly this make me not want to come back next league


why would i play again knowing that the next league prices gonna be 10X what they are now ?

i started playing this game because i heard that the dev listen to their community and care about feedback and after blizzard turned cooperate and one change take months to implement i thought maybe i should try path of exile because at least they care.

When I heard/saw

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Upcoming Changes in Path of Exile 3.14.0
So in 3.14.0, we're making some changes. The first three are direct nerfs to Harvest, and the second two are improvements. It's also worth noting that Harvest Atlas passives have been adjusted to accommodate these changes.

Previously, every seed in a patch granted an instance of that seed's craft. Now, only some of the seeds do (so you're getting far fewer of the crafts that were overwhelming people with their quantity). Higher-tier seeds are closer to the 1:1 ratio from before.
Some mods that had overly-deterministic behaviour have been removed. These include all annulment mods (other than the ones that remove a mod that isn't of a specific type before adding one of that type), and all type-specific divine mods.
Crafts that add mods of specific types (like Physical Modifiers, for example) to items can now only be applied to non-influenced items, except for the existing mod that applies an influenced mod to an influenced item.
The chance of encountering a portal to the Sacred Grove in a map has been increased by 60%.
The Heart of the Grove encounter is now a map fragment that sometimes drops from Tier 4 Harvest bosses, instead of randomly appearing in place of a normal Harvest grove. This allows you to trade the encounter if you don't feel up to it, and it means that finding The Heart of the Grove when you are in a map with difficult mods doesn't lead to an impossible encounter.

Overall, this is undoubtedly a heavy nerf to high-end Harvest Crafting, but we strongly believe that it is in Path of Exile's best interests going forward, and that there are still a lot of compelling Harvest crafts that make the grove worth running at any point in map progression.

I was concerned. I felt the way harvest was in 3.13 was pretty close to perfect. It had enough RNG to discourage farming it alone for mirror tier everything.

However, what it is farmed for enables players of just about every tier, to get that next set piece for any build they want. And ultimately, THAT is the core feature of PoE that draws the bulk of the players below the 100th%.

These changes won't affect the players who slam exalts and chaos. They grind enough to be above all that RNG and sit on top of all the exalts and mirrors.

*puts engineers hat on*
From a QoL perspective, I see what was aimed for with harvest crafting in its league and saw how it got out of control. I see how in 3.13 it is out of control as well, so I agree some balance is necessary.

However, I feel that the targeted divine is not balance breaking or RNG damaging. I know, combined with less variance in the seeds/crafts, the desired targeted divines would be more common, so bump them into the next tier up in rarity, diluting that pool and putting RNG back in command.

I am fine with same-same annul-exalt is a good removal. It wasn't popular anyways. Sure it was a safer way to annul, so I get the complaints. However, I like the idea of only having off-type annul. This would push more players into exalting or chaosing to get some off types for the sacrifice.

I am on the fence about the aug being limited on non-influenced. I mean at the end of the day, you can add mods and then influence it. I get why it is used heavily. Explody chests aren't the end all gear, so it is not like it is that OP to have it as it is. But again, it won't affect the top tiers, and it attainable with more RNG for the bulk of the playerbase (in this proposed way).

On a technical side, I really think the whole of harvest is sideways. Super clunky as a feature set. You have to find the encounter, pick the spawn for some crafts, live, then pick and choose what to use on the spot and what to save for later. I thought the original planting of seeds and growing encounters was fun. However, it was a chore. So I get this pre-filled encounters.

I think the crafts could have a seed cost and a lifeforce intensity. This way you could just make the encounters drop lifeforce seeds that sit in a bench with no craft limit on number of crafts, but have room for only one tier 4, for example. And when used, it has a recovery time. This way you don't have abuse.
*takes engineers hat off*

As far as any comments around mirror tier abuse in 3.13: I haven't seen any best items ever in the game. Either in my own runs/sessions, or on trade. I see some great items in streams: fully funded by the 1% top players and huge currency hordes.

I do like the subtle 'threat' that nerfing harvest will stop players from buying mtx because they will be bored and walk away from the RNG. Not saying that is my case. Just thinking it is funny to hear it online.