Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

I dont like that change, Harvest was what kept me playing this League.
It wasnt the League Mechanic, it was the ability to craft nice gear in a kind of deterministic way (It was still RNG involved) without spending hours and hours to get a upgrade. I loved finding a way to deterministicly fix a item and make it better.
Its sad that it will be gone, it was the most fun I ever had crafting in PoE.

Also:

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Players also expressed frustration that the most effective way to get the best items in Path of Exile was to join a discord channel and try to trade for these incredibly crucial crafts.

This problem will still remain for the nerfed Harvest crafts.
People will still trade them. And because there is no trading of crafts with Orbs (Like Bestiary), people will still use the Discord Server.
Hope you think about that and do something else then just nerfing crafts to counteract that problem.

And please fix the perfomance problems..

I agree GGG. Deterministic crafting is dangerous. I don't know how the expectation has become to acquire very powerful items so readily in a temporary league system arpg. This game is a multi-year project with deep content. In my opinion, new to mid level players should expect to play multiple leagues before they are able to clear out the end game in a single league. Experienced players should still struggle to complete all content in a few months. I think it would be healthy for the game to slow down a bit and hope to see some of this in poe2.

-appreciate your game and these discussions with and amongst community to improve poe!

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nimbukie wrote:

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kakaniania wrote:

You forget that noone forces you to complete the harvest.The same way you skip breach,abyss,legion and all other leagues that have been nerfed to the ground , you can skip harvest.The real problem from your point of view as i understand it is trading harvest crafts and not harvest itself.

Is that people's main hang up here? That people are trading harvest crafts with each other? If so that seems silly.

Quick List of Crafting types people trade:
Beast, Fossil, Essence, Bench, Currency, Syndicate, Temple, Labyrinth Enchants(Via Paid Runs) Completed Items, literally anything and everything they can.

So why not harvests?

I don't really understand what you are saying.Anyway 1) Beastcraft?dont make me laugh plz.The only reason beasts are farmed is because of fenumal.2) currency craft unless you mean alterations and maybe chaos or regals and annuls all other high currency are not used for crafting especialy exalts,3) Syndicate crafts? are we playing the same game?What syndicate crafts except Free exalts slam?4) Temple gambles you mean and yeah thats not crafting.Vaaling isnt crafting.5)Lab craft?Besides the lab farmers rarely anyone runs lab for enchants cause you know 1/500 chance for the one you want isn't that good of a chance , so most prefer to buy an item with the enchant already so they can start crafting.Essences , fossils and bench are the only crafts left and in this league with harvest implemented (nerfed ) where used more than any other league.
All the other are bullshit in this dev manifesto.You cant expect to go back 5 years ago and craft the items the same way when at that time there were no Shaoer/Elder/conqueror items or even awakening orb - mavens orb.Still nooone is going to pick up a rare item from the ground you know why?Because they are utter garbage when you have all the new conq mods.And no exalting an item when it could have 12 prefixes and 12 suffixes 5 years ago isnt the same as exalting a double conqueror item with 20 prefixes and 20 suffixes now.
At least there is d2r and d4 announced.The future is bright.

The biggest problem with Harvest was being stuck in the grove for extended periods of time, which was only made worse in 3.13 by limiting craft storage. The new implementation also created an end-game meta of Harvest farming (speed running Haewark/Zana maps), again detracting from more enjoyable aspects of the game.

The manifesto changes do little in resolving the failed integration of Harvest. Making something good obsolete is not a fix. It just shows lack of understanding. Honestly, I am surprised this is the best you can come up with.

Definitely a bad decision, from what I see here for most people. Hervest, however, was a form of motivation to find a few moments for POE after work. Define some goal you are aiming for. I was able to make a lot of items thanks to this, but not to make money on them, but to have more fun with the game.

Cant you see how many people are upset about this? Listen to the players. I was actually thinking about playing more next league when I got more time, and honestly thinking about buying some MTX for a planned build. With that single ignorant decision targeted only at a minority of players, I have totally lost any interest to play this game or spend any money on it.

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josephconrad wrote:

I agree GGG. Deterministic crafting is dangerous. I don't know how the expectation has become to acquire very powerful items so readily in a temporary league system arpg. This game is a multi-year project with deep content. In my opinion, new to mid level players should expect to play multiple leagues before they are able to clear out the end game in a single league. Experienced players should still struggle to complete all content in a few months. I think it would be healthy for the game to slow down a bit and hope to see some of this in poe2.

-appreciate your game and these discussions with and amongst community to improve poe!

Is Sirus considered "endgame" now? I thought that Sirus on A0 is just the end of the tutorial.

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Dan1986 wrote:

Cant you see how many people are upset about this? Listen to the players. I was actually thinking about playing more next league when I got more time, and honestly thinking about buying some MTX for a planned build. With that single ignorant decision targeted only at a minority of players, I have totally lost any interest to play this game or spend any money on it.

Boo hoo reddit and some forum is upset are you going to randomly pull a number and go 90% people are upset :(? No of course not because you have no data you only go this forum is upset and reddit too it must mean it!

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Vandurman wrote:

this is gold dude pure gold

Harvest deterministic crafts is the only thing that keeps me playing this game. None likes to gamble their time. People who have gambling addition and love to see numbers rolling they go for their stupid currency spams. The elite plays the game because it is their actual work 8-16 hours a day, of course they should be rewarded with near perfect items. The 95% of the players who play 1-4 hours per day, even with the current non-nerfed crafting system they never got mirror-tier items.

Just because people get better, it doesn't mean the game has to change to become harder. If you do that, no new people will play since the game is too hard or complex for them, no people will stay to play for more (player retention) since their amount of hours in the game cannot yield any improvements.

In other ARPGs people just kill monsters and in 1-2 hours of gameplay they find and identify a better item. In POE you get terabytes of trash string fields in your game databases with literally 0% chance for an item to be any better and people filter 99.99% of the game's drops.

This game needs to have items with fewer and more impactful modifiers, more base damage and lower multipliers, introduce new types of weapons with specific mod pools. Why does a rune dagger has chance to get local physical damage, why does a warstaff get damage to spells? Why do weapons give resistances? Maybe introduce an enchanter wand, that can roll resists and aura effect, but no attack or spell modifiers.

The previous paragraphs explain why people like harvest, they can clean their items and introduce impactful mods that otherwise are unobtainable. Since the addition of new modifiers decrease the chance for an impactful item to appear exponentially, no matter how much loot the game drops, no item dropped will fulfill or reward the player.