Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

Since blight, I have ~1,500 hours played. 500 of those hours have been Ritual. I REALLY enjoyed this league - it was the first time that I was able to make an item that was close to what I saw popular streamers use (explodey chest, etc.). It was the first time I had about 50 exalts at one time because I spent hours alt spamming, awakener orb, and hours farming for harvest to adjust and was able to sell. My build is now worth over 200ex - about 190ex more than any previous league.

I've enjoyed spending an entire evening crafting. What else would I be doing? Mapping non stop with no gear drops anywhere near that? Basically, just currency farming so I can buy someone else's lucky drop.

Harvest crafting gave me a new way to play the game. I could spend time using my brain and get the adrenaline rush of hitting rare mods via alt-spamming items. Are my items perfect? No. Do I have T3 resists or bad life rolls on items I spent 20+ex crafting? Yes. I'm okay with that - because I made the item and didn't just buy someone else's luck.

Sorry, but this manifesto was hugely disappointing and deflated my excitement for future leagues, unless more changes are made to gearing/drops.

You guys have everything mixed up in your understanding.

1. "Using currency items like Exalted Orbs or Chaos Orbs on your gear is a powerful, risky and exciting way to improve it"

- this is NOT a way to improve items. It's to CHANGE them. If you'd use Chaos Orb on your crafted influenced Body Armor with life and resistances - it will be changed unpredictably. Not improved.
You actually need SECOND item to craft on. And you realistically CAN NOT start and end crafting in one go. This second item will sit in stash till next crafting session and possible good output.


2. "Our goal was to make a system that was so attractive that players would try to improve their items by throwing a few crafts at them in almost every area that they play."

and

"many, many mirror-worthy items"

are Incompatible, as if you want people to drop an EX on the item, why would you not want them to use Mirror on an item?? Then any item people mirror will be "mirror worthy".

People don't do that, because (and you are agree with it) it is not optimal.



P.S. For me personally Harvest League was good. I crafted some shitty ilvl 70 gear and was moderately happy with them. You know - all this "swap resist type".

In curent league harvest was pretty bad. But I know that there were people, who had "fun" with it... on Discord. I'm not one of them. And I suffer alot form 10\10 Horticrafting station and from not being able to Scour my items from the map.

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illidian81 wrote:

Why not do an open survey for EVERYONE and see what the community really wants? or are they just guided by what some youtubers / streamers say?

They don't have the skills to make a good survey.

The one for watchstone divination card said that they are making a div card for a unique watchstone when 60% voters said magic one but spread on 4 different options...

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bauermayers wrote:

These nerfs are fine. POE crafting is gambling, no matter if you know what you're doing or not, and harvest goes against that.

It will continue to exist, so there's no reason to whine, but obviously part of this whinny community will whine until the next league begins, just like they do every time GGG change/nerf something. In this case the casuals that want the game balanced around them.

those casuals you explicitly talk down on.. are people with actual lives, a wife and kids + a full time job!!!!

99% of the playerbase is unable to play the game because of how much time they have on their hands... not how skilled they are!!!

99% of playerbase is people in their 30's if not 40's!!!

we don't have time to play 12-18 hours each day because we're working to pay for MTX, which they're gonna lose out on if everyone walks away when this decision is implemented!

[Removed by Support]

this change hurts everyone, including you, even if you think it won't.. it will hurt you as well!!

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kakaniania wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

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nimbukie wrote:

I missed harvest league due to real life, but I was really enjoying the mechanics in this league.

In a primarily single player environment I don't see the issue with harvest as it currently is. I have crafted items other ways in the past and have gotten decent gear, this was slightly easier, but still required a massive amount of time investment.

I find more diversity in builds due to this system and more people willing to try different builds because of it.

As far as TFT goes, this is the first league where I have looked at it. My suggestion with all things that can get you scammed is never partake in something you cannot afford. Another words if you can't afford to lose an item, don't use a service like TFT. If you can afford to lose the item then make an adult decision to either risk it or don't, but do not whine and complain to the rest of us that own up to our decisions and risks.

TLDR:
1. Harvest is ok without changes it adds spice to life.
2. Measure risk vs reward before making decisions and own the result.

Really you enjoyed it? I fucking hate it.

Spending 20 minutes in grove in middle of mapping so you dont waste any crafts. Total buzz kill. The whole forcing all-Hamlet-all-the-time because Havest is miles above every other SSF system in game. Fossils and Jun mods are damn good but nothing compared to Harvest.

This implementation has been totally unfun for me.

You forget that noone forces you to complete the harvest.The same way you skip breach,abyss,legion and all other leagues that have been nerfed to the ground , you can skip harvest.The real problem from your point of view as i understand it is trading harvest crafts and not harvest itself.

I don't trade. No my biggest problem is Harvest is all consuming for SSF player if you want good gear and it's unfun. Like 20 minutes pouring over crafts. Like the three tabs I got setup to use all crafts. Like farm same area since I hit red maps and probably for eternity until all gear mostly perfect. So boring. Yes I could play everywhere but is second rate and we all go meta.

Finally
God items were being acquired too easily, and most of them don't even required for you to play the game, just keep pressing the remove/add button until you hit something good.
And Path of exile is a game o knowledge, you can play infinite hours and acquire nothing if you don't know what you are doing. If you feel like the game doesn`t have the tools to create powerfull items without harvest, i suggest you guys study a little more

Like many others I don't like this. Casual players wont afford useful crafting anymore

I played this league more than I've played any league ever before, and it was 100% because of deterministic crafting. Ritual sucked, felt tedious and unrewarding, and GGG admitted it before the league was halfway over and did nothing to address it. Trade is absolute trash, and GGG knows it, and does absolutely nothing about it. The one fun point of the league, deterministic crafting, is being removed. I've heard "Chris Wilson hates fun" but it's never been as apparent as it is right now.

This league, I played longer than any league before, completed more achievements than any league before, ran more maps than any league before, made more currency than any league before, had more fun than any league before, completed more content than any league before, and it was 100% due to deterministic crafting. Harvest in this 'modified form might as well just be removed from the game. If easy crafting resulted in people quitting earlier, then none of that would be true. DETERMINISTIC CRAFTING gave me a reason to keep playing, because I had a guaranteed path of upgrading and improving my items up until they were amazing and near-perfect, then I rolled another character and did it again.

Everybody knows, and this manifesto states as much, that the problem was not with harvest, but with TFT and people trading crafts in large quantities. So, rather than address that problem, BAM COMES THE NERFHAMMER. Great job of refined, elegant design there, guys.

Maybe I'll be back for PoE2. With leagues coming out buggy and lackluster, GGG more interested in shoveling out masses of microtransactions than fixing unrewarding rituals, and a policy of sledgehammer smashing the only redeeming quality of the entire league, I think I'll take some time away from the game until either more attention is paid to the quality of the game, or balance is done with a knife and not a blunt heavy object.

Edit: I was planning on writing a long, involved feedback post about what worked this league and what didn't, based on four friends and mine combined feedback, but it seems rather pointless now that everything we planned on praising is going away. GG GGG.

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Graas Hoppa wrote:

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bauermayers wrote:

These nerfs are fine. POE crafting is gambling, no matter if you know what you're doing or not, and harvest goes against that.

It will continue to exist, so there's no reason to whine, but obviously part of this whinny community will whine until the next league begins, just like they do every time GGG change/nerf something. In this case the casuals that want the game balanced around them.

those casuals you explicitly talk down on.. are people with actual lives, a wife and kids + a full time job!!!!

99% of the playerbase is unable to play the game because of how much time they have on their hands... not how skilled they are!!!

99% of playerbase is people in their 30's if not 40's!!!

we don't have time to play 12-18 hours each day because we're working to pay for MTX, which they're gonna lose out on if everyone walks away when this decision is implemented!

stop being selfish and self-centered!

this change hurts everyone, including you, even if you think it won't.. it will hurt you as well!!

just watch path of math's video about this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdpA_xHXhEA&t=1114s

Matth did a great video and I loved that he stepped back, acknowledged where he is in the spectrum of players, and spoke with the realization that what benefits/detriments him doesn't necessarily have the same effect on the majority of the population that does not have 1,000 exalted orbs to slam for giggles.

"But then there would quickly be nothing left to achieve."
Is that so? I thought GGG have all the data you need to analyze what keeps the people playing and what makes they left. Why there are so many different builds in this league(at least until one month after league releases) is that the harvest crafting supported them and made them playable. Instead of major player can only play some OP builds and then GGG complaining why is nobody playing other builds.

"We don't want to take away the feeling of closing your eyes and Exalting an item, scared to see whether you ruined it or not."
As a player I can say I never wanted crafting equipment is a series of gambling, this is also why harvest crafting is so popular among players. Since the currencies are always presents in the game, can GGG you think of why is nobody using chaos and exalt to craft while the apparent of harvest crafting never disabled the function of currencies?
Players can always annul or exalt with or without present of harvest crafting, but neft harvest crafting like this is only forcing player back to the bad old way.