There is NO USA LAW that exempts you from wearing a mask...

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

As for the ozone layer thing, that shit happened right over my head. Apparently it's all healed now so that 'insane' movement had genuine headway and good results, but we're used to a somewhat lacking ozone layer down here anyway. Australian sun is just flat-out meaner than elsewhere. I've been to hotter places, drier places, more humid places, but that laser-focused speck of hatred is somewhat unique to south-east Australia.

You should try it down here in the south of NZ where we're even closer to Antarctica than you guys are. The heat here is never as bad, but the UV index is worse.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Which part am I confused about?

1)Human might not win against Alien?

2)Human might not stand together against Alien?

3)Some human are selfish and self serving?

Oh, no. That was MY confusion at your response. It didn't really seem to follow what I said, which was mostly in response to solwitch's quotation of The Day The Earth Stood Still.

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LennyLen wrote:

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

As for the ozone layer thing, that shit happened right over my head. Apparently it's all healed now so that 'insane' movement had genuine headway and good results, but we're used to a somewhat lacking ozone layer down here anyway. Australian sun is just flat-out meaner than elsewhere. I've been to hotter places, drier places, more humid places, but that laser-focused speck of hatred is somewhat unique to south-east Australia.

You should try it down here in the south of NZ where we're even closer to Antarctica than you guys are. The heat here is never as bad, but the UV index is worse.

It's really hard to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it too. It's *really* bad on our snowfields, where the glaring white just reflects it all too.

And yes, Rest of the World. Australia has snowfields. It's not just a myth perpetuated by The Man.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

To answer your first question, any business can refuse service based on dress code.

And, if a bank refuses entrance/service because a woman is wearing a hijab? :)

A sporting arena refuses entrance to a Sikh wearing a turban because they are not allowed to remove it to search for contraband?

A business doesn't install a ramp so that wheelchair-bound customers could have access?

A shooting range won't allow people to test weapons if they don't have any hands? ...

:)

Who's in charge of all this... stuffs? Is it Federal, State, Local government? Regulatory agencies? Licensing? The State/Local Health Department?

What happens in response to a person who suffers from something like claustrophobia or some other condition that presents unreasonable difficulty with them equipping a mask? There are people who have unreasonable reactions, often panic inducing, when their airway or breathing is somehow perceived as being restricted. Must we tell them they can't leave their home? Should they be subjected to daily tests in order to be able to wear a badge that announces their medical/psychiatric condition?

Again, I always wear a mask when in public spaces and very much support that being mandated by whatever agency we figure out is the best one to do so. 10/10, would wear a mask again...

I also think "The Greater Good" wins out, here, especially since it's not a prophylactic measure for the wearer, but one that protects "the innocent."

Even so... the wearing of sexual prophylactics is not mandated. There is no law or ruling that makes such a thing universal, despite the fact it can prevent deadly diseases from being transmitted to innocent participants. (Though, several episodes of "Law & Order" have taught me knowingly and intentionally spreading a deadly virus could be a crime...) So, wat do?

In my State, like an unfortunately many others, there is an emergency ruling that states anyone in a public space of a certain size occupancy must wear a mask.

However, right alongside that governor's ruling/whatsits, there is a disclaimer saying that the governor also will not enforce this ruling... thing.

On the day it was enacted, it was instantly rendered impotent. No law-enforcement, AFAIK, is empowered or advised to enforce this ruling on behalf of State Law. That puts it right back in the whole "private business practices/licensing/etc area."

TLDR: In order either have exemptions or to require the wearing of masks, we first have to decide who's in charge of it. And, to then decide if there is a Law that exempts a person from compliance... we have to decide who's in charge of it. :)

Federally enacted Martial Law would just wipe the whole board of possible legal playing-pieces. That won't be something likely to happen.

IMO: It's something that's probably more manageable by States and, for some hasty rules, added in as an emergency clause for licensing for business/public occupancy requirements if there's not already some "emergency" clause there to allow for it. State Health Departments would have to hand down a mandate for inspection/enforcement. YET, we still have to allow for criminal enforcement if we want police to help enforce it...

*Not an attorney, so any legal advice I offer is worth exactly what was paid for it.

^

I mentioned the slippery slope at the end of my post that you didnt include which mentions the concern about allowing private businesses to "select" customers.

If your business is open to the public, you have to follow state and federal law. So yes you have to satisfy ADA (your wheelchair question), and you cannot engage in intentional discrimination on Federal protected classes (age, sex, race, religion, etc)

That being said, anyone in the US can bring a lawsuit, so legal enforcement, percieved discrimination, and so on, can be settled by the court system.

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solwitch wrote:

From my elective law classes ^.^ (if you’re still in college take tort... as an elective thank me later)

So a guy walks in a business, ignores the sign "must wear mask or you will not be served." As he walks in other customers who are wearing a mask give him a look. He approaches the counter and says, "I can’t wear a mask I have a doctors note." ...

They can, instead "Trespass" the customer. They don't have to necessarily give any cause that rests upon mask wearing. They can just say the customer was "disruptive" and that's that. The officer, having witnessed the non-compliance issue, would probably seal the deal as far as that was concerned.

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There’s no precedent on masks, and no lawyer would even go near it...

Eh... In absence of a Law that directly applied to private citizens regarding compliance or freedom from, I'd agree. There are, however, Federal Regulations that require mask use/availability and certainly OSHA practices and many other "regulatory" issues that require "mask use" as well as mask performance standards that are described in detail. BUT, these don't necessarily apply to "private citizens."

There are Laws that make it illegal to wear a mask for the purposes of obscuring one's identity. (With exemptions for certain "Rights" like religious expression/reasons, of course.) At least, that's how I believe they are worded. But, if it's more "in general" then things might get weird. (IIRC, several groups have mentioned this, but surely out of the context of the original intent of the Law.)

There's also stuff like this, locally enacted and enforced: https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/americas/flu-america-1918-masks-intl-hnk/index.html

A note on the whole "discussion of politics/governments/nations/etc" - This discussion is more of a "mechanics" sort of issue. There's no substantive in-depth discussion or criticism of any nation/government going on in this thread, IMO.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

^

I mentioned the slippery slope at the end of my post that you didnt include which mentions the concern about allowing private businesses to "select" customers.

If your business is open to the public, you have to follow state and federal law. So yes you have to satisfy ADA (your wheelchair question), and you cannot engage in intentional discrimination on Federal protected classes (age, sex, race, religion, etc)

(Pardon the double-posts. Multiquote here isn't very friendly. :))

Exactly why I included the mention of those things, especially the ADA bit, in example-'ish statements. :)

It is a slippery slope kind of thing. Or, rather, it doesn't have to be, but someone could certainly make it into one.

It's really a question of how far up the chain origination and enforcement goes and under what conditions, if any.

I'm of the opinion in justifying it as a prophylactic measure, like putting child-safety caps on containers of medication. It's an inconvenience for the user, but it protects the innocent.

We now have widespread and generally accepted delivery services for basic needs. A person who was some sort of "conscientious objector" to the whole mask-wearing bit could then file additional delivery costs due to their "choice" as tax-deductions. :)

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That being said, anyone in the US can bring a lawsuit, so legal enforcement, percieved discrimination, and so on, can be settled by the court system.

Injunctions.

There could be an injunction against the enforcement of a Law if it is under review/legal challenge.

Day 1 - "Wear the #%^%^'ing mask" law goes into effect.

Day 1+30 minutes - An injunction issued by Federal Court Judge Larry Jane Lawrence against ""Wear the #%^%^'ing mask" Law" is now in effect. :)

A new law has to passed by state legislation and/or voted on by citizens. You cannot simply say a new law exists single handedly.

A state mandate or ordinance isnt technically a crime if violated, it would result in a citation or fine which a person or business could refuse to pay, appeal, or sue.

The same goes for forced closure. A Govenor could say no indoor dining or limit capacity, and a business could refuse. Again a fine or citation could be issued, but the business can file a lawsuit. Or they could close, and then sue for damages/losses. The key point here is there is absolutely no authority for state governor to shut down business for this length of time outside a declaration of martial law.

I have seen some states & cities try and get around this by expanding existing curfew laws, but again, their enforcement or viability of citations & fines are in question (every municipality is different)