Corona virus

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Boem wrote:

@scrotie, your leaning to hard on the totalitarian angle

No, because I recognize that the "economic angle" is a subset of the totalitarian angle.

Yesterday the governor of Nevada closed all non-essential businesses, including Las Vegas casinos. This wasn't a choice of customers; it wasn't the market. It was a government official on a power trip, Thanos snapping the economy of major city at his own whim.

Banning of "non-essential" businesses begs the question of whether or not the government considers your business essential or not. When the case is borderline the government will decide, and when an operating business delves into business the government doesn't like the government will question whether it's "essential" or not. In short, the state of Nevada's economy now follows the Chinese "communist" model.

Ultimately, a moratorium on an entire industry all but requires government backing. In much the same way a monopoly needs government to suppress competition to win without being competitive, an industry standdown, voluntary though it may be at first, requires government to prevent new businesses from filling the vacuum. Don't be fooled into thinking it's okay because a few big corporations sign on before government gets involved — it was their plan for government to get involved in the first place, to solidify their oligopoly.

Your woefully ignoring that people elected that governor to his position.

His power is still derived from the people which means it isn't totalitarian.
People will follow his orders because he has a mandate to give them.

It also means that if they push to hard and they lose the backing of the people that they will revolt or ignore the orders.

The current situation is interesting exactly because it makes a liberal society act like a totalitarian regime with the only difference being that it is done by choice instead of by fiat.
And it is this "choice" element that makes it exactly different to a totalitarian regime.

Even if they utilize law-enforcement to impose the current rules, if the elected officials haven't been corruptly mandated with their position this would still not be a totalitarian situation.

The liberal society's can show their cohesion in a moment like this by voluntarely acting in the best interest of the whole without losing sight of the choice element in their situation.
It's because of this that most of liberal society's are taking some time before going all in with rules, they don't have the totalitarian levers that a country like china has they need to wait on the people to ask for the rules to be imposed out of concern for the whole.

I think thats a beautifull thing, i also don't think like i mentioned earlier that people will forget that choice element or freedom when this is all over.

Peace,

-Boem-

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The_Impeacher wrote:

I believe that those of us who do take it seriously will be okay. Staying separated from the deniers is the new way going forward!

Having said that, I have to go finish the job I began yesterday at a house where the two occupants were coughing and going on about "Trudeau and his propaganda." We have them here too and I am indeed in danger.

Funny you'd bring him up. He has a rather early-career cameo in that fucked up Netflix docco 'Don't f**k with cats' that I finally watched. What a baby-face he was before that beard.

Stay safe.

500 people died just yesterday in Italy. that's messed up

Whats messed up is that toilet paper finally found its place on the media. Some higher ups needed to assure people that there is enough stocked up for years to come.

For once I am thankful.

Related to that, I also found out why these runs (haha) have lasted longer than they really should here in Australia: we have a law, pretty much nationwide, that states loading docks at supermarkets can only be used during daily business hours. This minimises traffic and noise pollution in the area, as loading docks are typically attended by big trucks.

Queensland has recently scrapped that law to ensure trucks can arrive and unload 24/7, and I hope the other states follow suit.

Funny the knock-on effects Covid-19 keeps having. Who'd ever think a 'super-flu' would bring to significance loading dock restrictions?

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Boem wrote:

Your woefully ignoring that people elected that governor to his position.

Because no famous fascist was ever legitimately elected into office. Oh wait, nevermind, yes they have.

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Boem wrote:

The current situation is interesting exactly because it makes a liberal society act like a totalitarian regime <snip>

I think thats a beautifull thing

You turn the screws
It's what you choose to do
You think that I
Must turn then too

You think that I
Must be so satisfied
I stay inside
I wonder why
— Cake, "Prolonging the Magic"

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Your woefully ignoring that people elected that governor to his position.

Because no famous fascist was ever legitimately elected into office. Oh wait, nevermind, yes they have.

I didn't think you were of the "trump is literally hitler" crowd.

The problem is not ellecting totalitarian people into office, the problem is allowing them to stay there.
That's what happened in germany because they had a "black sheep" to dispose off and focus anger out on.

It's a lot more difficult for goverments to get away with such behavior in a world as connected as we are.

The closest we have seen to dangers in that direction over the past century was the "down with the rich" crowd, which exhibited every behavior pattern the germans had prior to exposing of the jews under the same banner of "ill-gained wealth" the jews were famously into the banking industry in germany and very on their own culturaly, easy targets.

We aren't in a "post-war" depression like germany and there also isn't a black sheep scenario with a virus, neither is it possible to solidly falsely create such a story because of information distribution.

Your leaning to hard on the angle is what i said, i didn't say one shouldn't consider it.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : not gonna respond to the second quote because it isn't worth responding to a missrepresentation.

I've read road to serfdom and other relevant works on these things, im not ignorant of the dangers, your leaning to hard on one side which also isn't beneficial to society as a whole.

True liberty is chaos while rigid rules is death, a good society balances out both.
Trading safety against freedom is also a free market good, keeping taps of the lines and making sure it doesnt go to far in either direction is what a good citizen should do.

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Boem wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Your woefully ignoring that people elected that governor to his position.

Because no famous fascist was ever legitimately elected into office. Oh wait, nevermind, yes they have.

I didn't think you were of the "trump is literally hitler" crowd.

No, I'm more of the "Hitler was literally Hitler" persuasion.

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Boem wrote:

That's what happened in germany because they had a "black sheep" to dispose off and focus anger out on.

It's a lot more difficult for goverments to get away with such behavior in a world as connected as we are.

Yes, because when I think of modern inventions that make scapegoating impossible, the first thing that comes to mind is Twitter. /S

So whats your point, hitler is death, crisis averted.

either you believe somebody currently has the potential to do what he did with the current powers being utilized to safegaurd society or you don't and it's a non-issue.

So either point to the person your talking about or start looking at reality and realize society's have always granted away freedom in times of crisis and bounced back after that or took back what they desired.

You need specific conditions to achieve what your talking about, which aren't realistic currently.

Peace,

-Boem-

A bunch of guys in Turkey decided to drink "special" alcohol to protect themselves from the virus. Hours later, 15 of them are dead and 60 are in serious condition proving once again that no outside threat beats human stupidity.