Wolcen Hype Release!

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Sarno wrote:

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Johny_Snow wrote:

Set items are to blame, this is why I am very much against their inclusion in Last Epoch. Unique build-changing items should be limited to one piece, not multiples which pigeonhole you into a certain build.

Thanks for the feedback.

Would you mind if I asked for an example? The sentiment is common among people commenting on item sets in a general sense, but I've never actually seen someone saying "Last Epoch Set A pushes people to use Last Epoch Build 1". The feedback always seems more... hypothetical.

Last Epoch only has 2 sets so far, both are not build defining. Which is kind of how things go with sets - they are either build defining or outclassed. Trying to do it in any other way is a losing battle. Besides, that one set which gets bonuses to the three elements - it is possible to condense it in a single unique item (with lower bonuses) or different unique items which give different bonuses, kind of like how unique ignite-based items work right now. I don't see why it must be a set of items. In fact I don't think I've ever seen a good reason why sets must exist in a game. Whats dangerous in Last Epoch in particular is that it doesn't have that many item slots (I think it has 1 more than PoE where you shove the book?), so sets there will either become build defining and you need to predominantly wear set pieces for a certain build or they will consist of 2-3 items, which begs the question why not just turn them into uniques anyway.

By the way, I don't agree that bestiary items are proper set items. They all revolve around auras. I don't believe every single set can revolve around an aura, its too complicated to pull off.

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Johny_Snow wrote:

By the way, I don't agree that bestiary items are proper set items. They all revolve around auras. I don't believe every single set can revolve around an aura, its too complicated to pull off.

The aura is the connection point of all the items, there is no reason to believe it needs to be an aura with an actual effect but could just be a "buff effect" on the character that all the items read before granting their own individual modifiers.

The thing with bestiary is that you can craft that aura on any gear so suddenly the "set-item" restriction is worked away.

Because of that you can have a situation where "1 set item bonus" becomes a thing, which seems almost contrary to the usual functionality or design of sets.
Obviously also because they don't exponentially scale up the more items you equip, each piece of gear grants its distinct value or ability.

I think what you call "not propper set items" i simply call "the best implementation of set items to date" if i had to compare them with other games.

The aura objection doesn't seem an issue to me because you could simply make it a 5% mana reservation character buff that excludes other "set character buffs" to expand the system.
Though i like the mana reservation cost associated(35%) because it also forces choice on the player. "Is this set worth giving up a herald or 50% aura", is a very solid way to make people weigh it up.

Peace,

-Boem-

Plenty of flaws actually

If more have to be included, the entire Bestiary mechanic has to be reworked. This is not the easy access uberlab, where no matter how many new enchants are added the access remains cheap. On top of that the items in the how many, 4 bestiary sets, are not evenly balanced with some of them clearly much better and usable than the rest. If this set system was so good in theory the devs should have at least tried to clean it up but they never did, they tried out other ways of itemization instead.

The bestiary items almost always require an additional rare item to make them work. This can be very restrictive. Suddenly even if you use 1 bestiary item in reality you have 2 slots filled up. This is one of the biggest reasons why sets are IMO bad.

The aura buffs can eventually start overlapping and getting redundant. So you have aspect of the spider which is great for chaos builds, avian which is great for minion builds, etc. Eventually if you keep adding more they will start to overlap because they cant be anything other than general - increase chaos damage, increase crit, etc. Path of Exile is an awful place for set items and the like because of the way skills are acquired and leveled, and how open ended each class is.

This may cause conflicts with actual auras/heralds. It may limit the number of new auras/heralds being introduced or it will be a case where one is strictly better than the other.

^These aren't flaw, but natural end-states.

A game where everything is equally valid is a failed game by design because every choice wins.

I was simply using them as examples of how i think "good set items" can be formulated.

1) no exponential scaling
2) exclusion cost of other powerfull mechanics(trade-off)
3) low amount of new mechanics added(rather new interpretations)

Point 3 might need some clarification, most beastiary unique's don't provide new mechanics but simply alternative slots of ways to gain mechanics already in the game.(spider webs = withers aura, cat chest grants charges etc, crab block and reduced damage etc)

They usually move mechanics to new item slots or allow stacking of earlier mechanics with a similar one under a new name to push a new limit while not being mechanically novel.

The result is both a trade off in item slots and the potential to gain it's benefits via other means beyond the set.
That's why they only see use under specific conditions in the current game where they solve a problem only they can fix.

I mostly believe point 1) results in bad implementation of sets. When you have "equip 3 of these and gain these X additional bonusses on top" sets start to feel mandatory and negatively impact games.

Peace,

-Boem-

Meh, sounds like something niche which the bestiary uniques already are. I am looking at this as a legitimate item type on the same level as normal/magic/rare/unique.

I've been busy playing and finding things to really talk about it, but I just discovered something very cool. I wasn't sure if the Eos passive 'Dawn's Pious Striker' (instakill mobs with sacred damage at 15% life) was going to work, but eh, gave it a go anyway. Not only does it work, it has a very fucking cool smite-like visual effect when it kicks in.

I love shit like that.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

I've been busy playing and finding things to really talk about it, but I just discovered something very cool. I wasn't sure if the Eos passive 'Dawn's Pious Striker' (instakill mobs with sacred damage at 15% life) was going to work, but eh, gave it a go anyway. Not only does it work, it has a very fucking cool smite-like visual effect when it kicks in.

I love shit like that.

Ya that node is really good, I played in a party with someone who was using that node and was enjoying it lol. I noticed but its not like game playing related but if you stay on the city builder for awhile you will get random chatter from the civilians, guards, traders, and other people. I've heard some funny stuff, some interesting stuff, and it's just kind of cool having that feeling that the city is alive and doing it's own thing.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

I've been busy playing and finding things to really talk about it, but I just discovered something very cool. I wasn't sure if the Eos passive 'Dawn's Pious Striker' (instakill mobs with sacred damage at 15% life) was going to work, but eh, gave it a go anyway. Not only does it work, it has a very fucking cool smite-like visual effect when it kicks in.

I love shit like that.

Have used it on almost every build from the beginning, and it's definitely nice to have. Nuking the last 15% on the obnoxious Aurora Knight boss makes it worthwhile by itself.

It's interesting the things we pick up and cling to. I haven't taken a single node in half the third wheel classes yet. I gravitate to Arms Maester, Duskglaive, Child of Fury, Time Weaver, Alastor. But then I found Salvatory Anchor in Siegebreaker and frankly there's NO ONE who doesn't benefit greatly from that node.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

It's interesting the things we pick up and cling to. I haven't taken a single node in half the third wheel classes yet. I gravitate to Arms Maester, Duskglaive, Child of Fury, Time Weaver, Alastor. But then I found Salvatory Anchor in Siegebreaker and frankly there's NO ONE who doesn't benefit greatly from that node.

Child of Fury and Intravenous Neural Cord just make 2h melee feel so much better. I like em in most of my builds.

I have 2 new builds I want to attempt, the first one will probably fall flat on its face though.

I've yet to make a caster and a dagger/sword build so I'm gonna experiment with it.

Caster, I'm not too sure what it will be but I want to use Wintry Hail from White Arrow and Pugilistic Moment from Arms Maester to see what I can do with the basic attacks on Staves. Other than that, I might just use a bunch of fireballs and ice novas. I'm not sure how far this one will go.

Second character will be attempting a pure stealth/active dodge build. Gonna roll with Duskshroud with the invis and increased duration, Tethered Shade and Waltzing Smoke from Duskshroud, and Toxic Emanations from Plaguebringer. This one I'm more confident about as I can always just scale the ailments harder if needed.