Code of Conduct Changes - Do better at least for optics

+1

I also completely disagree.

It was 882 pages of mostly meaningless drivel. Yes, much of the last few hundred pages was drivel authored by me but still meaningless drivel. GGG can do with the forum as they choose. If they no longer want to deal with political and religious drivel then great. Their choice.

You guys are just upset because since I made the last post, I get the last word. HAHA! (Note: just a silly joke here.)

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Couldn't the opposite be true? That banning discussion of arbitrary topics will lead to disengagement? Shouldn't that also be avoided?

Not when your core business is a video game, now owned by TenCent Social Credit Score Crew. We that were here all had our wrestle with what that meant for us when the sale happened, some for ten seconds, some much longer, and left or stuck around. Some are new and didn't experience that.

Enough people stuck around, and kept playing. That's the core business.

The loss of a few people sensitive on principle to the erosion of freedom of speech (probably those weirdos who have read a bit of history, and or who have some awareness of human rights issues) where the line is discovered to exist and is drawn here is nothing to that money making enterprise, that has survived a much more severe test (the sale).

Who knows what plans are in the pipeline for the PoE product? Stripping back political and religious discussion makes sense for something attached to TenCent and fits nicely with the GGG team's needs because dealing with bans, infractions, pms, messages, tantrums and the content itself is hard work that I doubt they get training on from anyone versed in mental health hygiene.

Can imagine down the track Off Topic itself being deleted, as has been talked about for a long time now.

I don't think it's disengagement to stop using the forum or cut back in the light of this change, and possible ones to come (this won't be the last) rather it's being fully engaged, owning one's time and resources - circle of influence stuff - and choosing one's battles. The internet is a big place.

As a creaky old retired flame warrior, this kind of thing makes me long for circa 2006, not just for the stifling of topics, but for the PC bullshit jackboot on your face too that's everywhere.

Stifling stuff is not the way to deal with it. Kill it with fire (hell yes for some things) or communicate and seek to educate and understand, maybe by using some humour.

Oh well, for the here and now -

isn't a simple life free from worry a lovely thing?



Oh, and the world is possibly even a bigger place, hm, not a physicist...

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erdelyii wrote:

Spoiler

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Couldn't the opposite be true? That banning discussion of arbitrary topics will lead to disengagement? Shouldn't that also be avoided?

Not when your core business is a video game, now owned by TenCent Social Credit Score Crew. We that were here all had our wrestle with what that meant for us when the sale happened, some for ten seconds, some much longer, and left or stuck around. Some are new and didn't experience that.

Enough people stuck around, and kept playing. That's the core business.

The loss of a few people sensitive on principle to the erosion of freedom of speech (probably those weirdos who have read a bit of history) is nothing to that money making enterprise, that has survived a much more severe test (the sale).

Who knows what plans are in the pipeline for the PoE product? Stripping back political and religious discussion makes sense for something attached to TenCent and fits nicely with the GGG team's needs because dealing with bans, infractions, pms, messages, tantrums and the content itself is hard work that I doubt they get training on from anyone versed in mental health hygiene.

Can imagine down the track Off Topic itself being deleted, as has been talked about for a long time now.

I don't think it's disengagement to stop using the forum in the light of this change, rather it's being fully engaged, owning one's time and resources - circle of influence stuff - and choosing one's battles. The internet is a big place.

As a creaky old retired flame warrior, this kind of thing makes me long for circa 2006, not just for the stifling of topics, but for the PC bullshit jackboot on your face too that's everywhere.

Stifling stuff is not the way to deal with it. Kill it with fire (hell yes for some things) or communicate and seek to educate and understand, maybe by using some humour.

Oh well, for the here and now -

isn't a simple life free from worry a lovely thing?

The CoC changes apply to in-game chat as well. Maybe chatting about "forbidden topics" is what people enjoy doing while they play Path of Exile, and maybe those people will be less likely to play the game or purchase MTX if they can't do that.

"The loss of a few people" is a gut feeling. What if it's a significant number of people? Or, at least, what if it's more people than would be turned off by "forbidden topics"?

We agree that censorship is morally bad (the stomping of PC jackboots), but I'm not even sure that censorship is a wise business decision.

As for Off-topic, I agree that it should just be deleted. It's dead as fuck now, at any rate.

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pneuma wrote:

The CoC changes apply to in-game chat as well. Maybe chatting about "forbidden topics" is what people enjoy doing while they play Path of Exile, and maybe those people will be less likely to play the game or purchase MTX if they can't do that.

"The loss of a few people" is a gut feeling. What if it's a significant number of people? Or, at least, what if it's more people than would be turned off by "forbidden topics"?

We agree that censorship is morally bad (the stomping of PC jackboots), but I'm not even sure that censorship is a wise business decision.

As for Off-topic, I agree that it should just be deleted. It's dead as fuck now, at any rate.

Haha! My post definitely betrays my opinion of political and religious in-game chat. What people accomplish in ephemeral five word lines of spam amidst "give me ur free shit" and trap jokes is hardly going to set a petrol station on fire.

I guess we'll see how many players leave because they can't do that uh sophisticated debate any more so freely.

Didn't say Off Topic should be deleted, I'm not fussed either way. Knowing that it may well, yeah that affects how invested I am to some extent. Always has though, it's not a new concept.

ed: on the business, well, we have no idea of the numbers or the plans. Must make business sense and be a fair risk, it's not a chook raffle we're talking about here.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

the idea that political and religious discussions are "gateway topics" and that cutting them will "significantly reduce the strain on bour staff for the benefit of their mental well-being" is a bad joke.

I'm going to disagree. Imagine for a moment that you are a GGG moderator. You have a VERY strong opinion on a certain thread, but you are not allowed to place your own comments in it because then it could be construed as GGG's opinion.

You watch this thread go on for what - close to 2,000 pages? - in its three iterations - yet you cannot speak.

There are other jobs in the real world where to maintain the image of professionalism, a person must listen to and try to ignore a lot of stuff they find offensive.

I can respect Chris Wilson for wanting to protect his team from having to put up with unnecessary mental anguish.

GGG gave us a lot more leeway than I ever expected. There are aspects of reality that people do NOT like to think about, much less be reminded of. Video games are meant to be a temporary escape from real life problems, and GGG shouldn't be faulted because they want their team to be able to enjoy their jobs, rather than dread them.

There are some critical elements missing from all of our "discussions".
We are talking to many people, and many people are talking to us and to each other, but it isn't in real time. There is a disjointed nature in which each of us chooses to hear and respond to what we want to, which makes it even more confusing.

We are not experiencing things face to face, so we lack the emotional feedback of how our message is heard or hurtful. The words we type are semi-permanent, unlike verbal speech, which tends to get muddled and have less of an impact. Without personal interaction, we lack the cues that we use in real life to determine whether someone's message is honest or dishonest. Topics with a lot of emotional impact become more heated then they would likely become in real life. People don't want to hear the "truth" on the internet, they want to hear something that is familiar and comforting to them. As Depeche Mode wrote in Lie to Me:

"Experiences have a lasting impression
But words once spoken
Don't mean a lot now
Belief is the way
The way of the innocent
And when I say innocent
I should say naive
So lie to me
But do it with sincerity
Make me listen
Just for a minute
Make me think
There's some truth in it

Promises made for convenience
Aren't necessarily
What we need
Truth is a word
That's lost its meaning
The truth has become
Merely half-truth
So lie to me
Like they do it in the factory
Make me think
That at the end of the day
Some great reward
Will be coming my way"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlMBs_HUcxQ

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鬼殺し wrote:

:)

Dunno if I'm a good gamer but I'm good gaming.

I lumped myself in there too, so my target for “good gamer” definitely isn’t anywhere near skill or competition. I measure somewhere nearer attitude—is this someone who knows how to make this fun? That’s.. most people I suspect? I mean, games themselves do most of the work.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

GGG-OT is not social media

False. It's not in the major leagues, obviously, but if you're an itty bitty social media platform, you're a social media platform.

This is nit picky, but I’ll concede fair point this time. Reinterpret social media as Social Media.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

We’ve seen the worse natures of some people who, otherwise, are or were good company

If somebody was good company, I don't believe they suddenly lose that quality

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

My only interest in “that” thread was for the discussion of the political philosophical meta, but opportunity for that has long since been dead, at least for me, being driven nearly paralyzed by my inarticulateness and the eager willingness of others to so quickly “other” another.

This, after saying some have revealed themselves to be monsters.

You’ve partially the wrong idea, I think. Everybody contains those beastparts I mentioned earlier. I’m not talking good and evil here, but base human nature, millions of years old. Part of growing up is sorting out the various human natures and arranging them into something productive. The human instinct to threaten aggression against the unfamiliar is a lot less productive in an environment of modern convenience than it is sleeping in caves around bonfires, and so we build filters as we develop and recognize behaviors that don’t work. Changes in circumstance can expose blind spots and let loose behaviors previously remedied, and so we continue to reflect and refine those filters.

It is not as though anybody, on these forums or elsewhere, can or should be accused of being anything but human.

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DalaiLama wrote:

We are not experiencing things face to face, so we lack the emotional feedback of how our message is heard or hurtful. The words we type are semi-permanent, unlike verbal speech, which tends to get muddled and have less of an impact. Without personal interaction, we lack the cues that we use in real life to determine whether someone's message is honest or dishonest.

Also this. Absence of feedback really dulls the stimulus to reflect upon the productivity of one’s behaviors.

Edit: Almost forgot. Did something happen two days ago? Curious about some comments earlier “bad timing doing this today” and such.

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aggromagnet wrote:

They'd be really hard-pressed to convince me that this rule change isn't coming from Tencent in some way.

and also

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I just think it's hilarious that this happens around the anniversary of a certain event which won't be named. Sure, it could be a coincidence, but...

in my country there's a saying : "to think ill is a sin, but you're often right".

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DalaiLama wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

the idea that political and religious discussions are "gateway topics" and that cutting them will "significantly reduce the strain on bour staff for the benefit of their mental well-being" is a bad joke.

I'm going to disagree. Imagine for a moment that you are a GGG moderator. You have a VERY strong opinion on a certain thread, but you are not allowed to place your own comments in it because then it could be construed as GGG's opinion.

You watch this thread go on for what - close to 2,000 pages? - in its three iterations - yet you cannot speak.

You're joking, right? Have the moderator create an unpowered alt to post edgy comments with, problem solved. Just don't reveal alt is mod-owned.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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DalaiLama wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

the idea that political and religious discussions are "gateway topics" and that cutting them will "significantly reduce the strain on bour staff for the benefit of their mental well-being" is a bad joke.

I'm going to disagree. Imagine for a moment that you are a GGG moderator. You have a VERY strong opinion on a certain thread, but you are not allowed to place your own comments in it because then it could be construed as GGG's opinion.

You watch this thread go on for what - close to 2,000 pages? - in its three iterations - yet you cannot speak.

You're joking, right? Have the moderator create an unpowered alt to post edgy comments with, problem solved. Just don't reveal alt is mod-owned.

Yeah i didn't quite understand the point behind his post.

It's like the totally forgot the part where this is a FFA forum board without any buy-in restrictions to partake in conversations.

When being a moderator i expect a golden rule approuch to every participant in the forums, but i don't see how this restricts a moderator to partake in the discussion himself in his off-time on a seperate account.

I tend to think i would welcome somebody joining a discussion with skin in the game. And i reckon anybody would that doesn't have a fixed world view and joins a forum to broaden his perspectives on certain topics.

Peace,

-Boem-