[3.5] The Blinding Blizzard - Whispering Ice CI Elequisitor - Viable For Everything

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Kelvynn wrote:

Tried the new Incinerate for clearing. It's trash. It does too little DPS of its own and takes too long to power up (about 2 sec to reach stage 8). If I were to spend 2 sec casting on 1 pack of mobs, that would result in 5 Icestorm casts - a massive overkill/wasted time. Rares might need 2 sec of casting, but on rares SR is better because it applies extra resist debuff. So much for that idea.

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Sykar wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

Tried the new Incinerate for clearing. It's trash. It does too little DPS of its own and takes too long to power up (about 2 sec to reach stage 8). If I were to spend 2 sec casting on 1 pack of mobs, that would result in 5 Icestorm casts - a massive overkill/wasted time. Rares might need 2 sec of casting, but on rares SR is better because it applies extra resist debuff. So much for that idea.

Incinerate is fine. You do not have to channel the full duration to get that final 500% more damage/more ignite wave. It synergizes well with Ice Storm, Combustion and Ignite nodes for basically 100% ignite chance which means with Combusion you almost instantly have 19% fire resistance reduced.

Also it does profit from all of your fire penetration since it is a spell that hits unlike Scorching Ray. Since it is a hit it can also leech which Scorching Ray cannot do. To top it all off it also has a base crit chance which helps keeping EO going.

If you go at least partially for Ignite then Incinerate will out-damage Scorching Ray which cannot Ignite at all. Use an Emberwake Ring and you can keep up two of those monster ignites if you can brainlessly channel if you have no duration nodes or Temp Chains.
In fact my level 17 Incinerate has double the base DPS of my Scorching Ray which is level 19.

There is also the fact that it Incinerate scales off AoE gems and nodes, which means better synergy between Ice Storm and Incinerate if you use AoE nodes and gems. It makes a 5 link actually valuable on WI.

Lastly Incinerate scales greatly with quality, gaining 1% increased fire damage per 1% quality. Scorching Ray gets an almost inconsequential range increase.

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Med1umentor wrote:

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Sykar wrote:

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Kelvynn wrote:

Tried the new Incinerate for clearing. It's trash. It does too little DPS of its own and takes too long to power up (about 2 sec to reach stage 8). If I were to spend 2 sec casting on 1 pack of mobs, that would result in 5 Icestorm casts - a massive overkill/wasted time. Rares might need 2 sec of casting, but on rares SR is better because it applies extra resist debuff. So much for that idea.

Incinerate is fine. You do not have to channel the full duration to get that final 500% more damage/more ignite wave. It synergizes well with Ice Storm, Combustion and Ignite nodes for basically 100% ignite chance which means with Combusion you almost instantly have 19% fire resistance reduced.

Also it does profit from all of your fire penetration since it is a spell that hits unlike Scorching Ray. Since it is a hit it can also leech which Scorching Ray cannot do. To top it all off it also has a base crit chance which helps keeping EO going.

If you go at least partially for Ignite then Incinerate will out-damage Scorching Ray which cannot Ignite at all. Use an Emberwake Ring and you can keep up two of those monster ignites if you can brainlessly channel if you have no duration nodes or Temp Chains.
In fact my level 17 Incinerate has double the base DPS of my Scorching Ray which is level 19.

There is also the fact that it Incinerate scales off AoE gems and nodes, which means better synergy between Ice Storm and Incinerate if you use AoE nodes and gems. It makes a 5 link actually valuable on WI.

Lastly Incinerate scales greatly with quality, gaining 1% increased fire damage per 1% quality. Scorching Ray gets an almost inconsequential range increase.

For starters, combustion already give 50% chance of ignite on every hit, so we don't ever have a problem with gaining this "-19% res on enemy". Also, your point about combustion is lacking, cause for that to work, we need to link combustion with incinirate, which is entire gem slot for ours icestorm. Kelvyn's variant with orb of storm/ball lightning link is so much better, especially ball lightning one.

Scorching ray always was just for "- fire res" debuff, we don't care that it doesn't profit from ours penetration. Exactly why it is on lvl 1, and that's exactly why we don't have problem with mana... Incinerate don't help enough to overthrow those cons.

If we are talking about ignite, and emberwake - i wouldn't say that ignite is useless, but i would say that you are definitely in wrong topic. Entirely different build, especially if you want to bring out emberwake. For icestorm build incinerate vastly inferior variant.

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Sykar wrote:

1.) Kelvynn is not god. His build is just that, a build and in fact this is not even his first variant he played several over the past 1-2 years at least. It does not mean it is the only working WI variant nor that it is the best. Incinerate works nicely with Ice Storm though needs some adjustment and cannot be taken over 1 to 1 since the focus goes away from straight damage and -resist to incorporate Shock,Ignite and Elemental Proliferation, at least in my variant. Also who is "we"? Kelvynn "fanbois"? Do you speak on behalf of every IS+channel skill player?
2.) I am aware why Scorching Ray is taken. As you can see this character is far from young at level 89. Incinerate has clear advantages over SR which I have listed. If you think the pros do not outweigh the cons that is fine. Just stop lecturing me, I have played WI for roughly 2 years now.
3.) I have no idea what your problem with Combustion is. The damage is almost the same if you exchange it for Elemental Focus. You have less frontload damage but you get Ignite which benefits from Combustion unlike EF and it lowers resist by 19% which compensates for the lack of direct damage increase on top of the extra ignite chance. Having 100% chance to ignite > 40% chance to ignite. It means as soon as something hit it is ignited for 19% less fire resistance plus ignite gets to work right away.
4.) I have sincere doubts that you have really tested a properly adjusted build with Incinerate. Though admittedly I play it as an Elementalist and from what I can see Beacon of Ruin and Shaper of Desolation are superior nodes for that kind of idea. Of course since I have not played much due to work and family life I have only done some testing and I am not saying that it is superior but at least for Elementalists it is worth checking out. For Scions it is probably not as interesting since they do not have as much support for elemental ailments and specifically Ignite.

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Until_The_End wrote:

Why do you use a Fertile mind near the beginning of scion path ( direction Dualist) ? the Jewel slot between the dualist and the scion already convert all the dext node

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Med1umentor wrote:

Dude, i never said that Kelvynn is god. I said that Kelvynn's variant of combustion is superior. Before getting offended, read properly, please.
I have no problem with combustion. As you said, we can even safely exchange it for elemental focus. But why? When we can use more than a third of the power of combustion without taking the slot in our WI... Let's leave that bs about "being fanboi" and all, and just face the cold facts - combustion or elemental focus will give us about 50% modificator, but combustion on support link with elemental focus on main link will give us 70%. You can't deny that.
And also - Lol for not 100% ignite... ball lightning hit 5-6 times in second, and each hit have 50% of ignite. That ball lightning will ignite faster than you even start channeling incinerate.
About clear advantages of incinerate over scourching ray - all of those were damage dealing capabilities. And that's why i protested, because you were barking on the wrong tree. Scorching ray don't deal damage in setup. None! Don't compare it. What we need to compare is - if incinerate is good for clearing, as changing structure of our "non-damaging channeling skill". It was good question that was in need of testing. It was tested and it was deemed not good enough. Why? Because icestorm is too good.
It's pretty much come to this - incinerate wasn't strong enough to kill everything without some of the wind up, and if we have time for wind up - icestorm would do that anyway. Aoe of incinirate not really that good, icestorm with cascade was much superior.
And there you have it. Incinerate is indeed superior damage skill if compared to scourching ray, but provide way too little advantage for icestorm, especially considering the price of implementing it (need 6 link staff, need to remove concentrated effect or it wouldn't be aoe at all, need to add manaleech somehow, which is pain in the ass, etc)
And if we compare SR with incinarate as support skill, well obviously SR win.

About elementalist - yeah, that's right. But you can't blame me for that, i had no idea who did you played, and considering that you didn't tell that yourself and write in that topic - it was obvious for me to consider that you are scion as well.
But hey, what i wanted to tell - if you play as icestorm, then why you even consider to gave up ring (which is ton of damage and int for us) for emberwake, which isn't even good with firestorm? But it's good for incinerate, yeah. And here is the point: 2 builds are "ignite-incinerate" and "icestorm". In ignite-incinerate instead of stacking int we can vastly boost our actual incinerate and ignite from it, in icestorm we obviously boosting our int, and not burning damage and ignite.
So why are you promoting such "jack of all trades" which will be inferior to both of them?
And don't get me wrong, i'm not against trying something new, it's actually fun part of the game. But if you post it in the guide-topic of the build, then you need to provide "pros" to convey your point, which you failed to do.

P.S. Also, when i used "we" it was "player/character". WTF is wrong with you? I never even considered that somebody can take my sentence so much out of context... If you have some kind of complex about the fact that kelvynn variant is better, i don't care, but your call about "fanbois" was too pathethic.
Your points were so flawed that i thought that you were troll at first. After some reconsideration, i thought that you said right thing, but just accidentaly wrote in the wrong topic (wrong build). But now i know that you definitely talking about icestorm, and know that your 2 years of so-called "experience" doesn't mean anything.

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My experience is worth certainly more than your meaningless attacks on my person.

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I mentioned that you do not have to even channel one second against trash half a second is sufficient. The final wave ALWAYS comes and the 500% more damage is more than sufficient even with just the base damage. My setup does not waste Combustion on Ball Lightning which has no benefit from anything but the fire resist reduction.

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SR deals no damage? Do leave it at leve l 1 because Kelvynn says so? What for? A build with such high intelligence and a bit of mana regen from nodes can easily spam it at max level. I must know, I have done it for a long time though I guess my experience is "worthless" as you so eloquently put it. The only time I'd consider going for a level 1 SR is for no regen maps. Even then I prefer to use Warlord's Mark. I would not call 2400 base DPS and potentially 420% more damage at max stacks "nothing". Especially when my Icestorm deals about 5.5k damage according to ingame screen.

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It was "tested"? Really? Thoroughly? Or just as a mindless replacement with no further thought given?

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