Trump during campaign:
"No more wars, our people will not die in meaningless wars, blah blah blah, we will not escalate conflicts blah blah blah"
After 2 years:
"Lets fuck up Iran as hard as we can and possibly trigger the chain of events that will lead to WW III"
And yet, there's no boots on the ground. Tough words are just words, and they're a natural part of foreign relations. You have to wave your big stick even if -- especially if -- you do not intend to ever use it.
"
Letmeliveeee wrote:
Not mentioning the hypocrisy that is obvious when you look at recent ban of Huawei. They banned them for putting spyware on their devices, but google is doing exactly the same thing with every single Android device. So I understand, that only USA can spy, yea? XD
... Where's the hypocrisy? Huawei is an extension of the Chinese state, and the US obviously has a vested interest in disallowing Chinese spying, among other crimes like repeated IP theft.
Google is a primarily American company that the US has tons of leverage over and they're not trying to hide their intentions. If they try to weaponize their data collection against American citizens, then the US would absolutely counterattack.
You can watch this in real time, actually, as Google (via Youtube) acts as an illegitimate publisher and is now careening toward regulation.
False. The emails contained evidence of intent and strategy to rig both Democrat and Republican primaries, confirmation of the existence of a Democrat-media alliance to include giving Clinton debate questions I advance, an acknowledgement that staff consider groups they openly received donations from to be terrorists, proof that the Clinton campaign chief's brother Tony was trying to rope John into a Thelemic (Crowley occultist) ceremony, and that John would sometimes email other people in a "pizza code" (although what this code actually meant was never determined).
"
The_Impeacher wrote:
"
Turtledove wrote:
The Mueller report said it was clear that Putin himself directed a systematic and consistent effort to help Trump win the election. That is not debatable.
This is correct. Putin directed Yevgeny Prigozhin to coordinate hackers in the GRU and the IRA to help Trump.
(starting on page 12 of the Mueller report pdf)
Wow. Everyone, go look at Page 4 of Volume I of the Mueller Report (the 12th page in most PDFs of the report) and contrast what Impeacher gets out of a text with the text itself.
Impeacher, the Mueller report says "The [Internet Research Agency] was based in St. Petersburg and received funding from Russian oligarch Yevgeniy Prigozhin and companies he controlled. Prigozhin is widely reported to have ties to Russia President Vladimir Putin."
That is NOT a direct claim of ANY of the following:
- Putin directed the IRA
- The IRA received funding from Putin
- The IRA received the majority of its funding from Prigozhin
- Prigozhin directed the IRA
- Prigozhin influenced the IRA (although this is suggested)
- Prigozhin has close ties to Putin
- Prigozhin has ties to Putin (although this is suggested)
- Putin had knowledge of IRA social media activity
- Prigozhin had knowledge of IRA social media activity
- Prigozhin had anything whatsoever to do with the GRU, mentionied in the next section starting on the bottom of the same page.
Impeacher please believe me when I say this comes from a place of love: you have become so biased that you've basically destroyed your reading comprehension skills. While this is strange, it isn't THAT strange — occasionally even I misread things due to bias. Slow down, stop assuming that reality will consistently agree with you, and take a moment to figure out what it is people are actually saying.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on May 26, 2019, 10:58:28 AM
As for you, Turtledove (and other saner anti-Trump folk), I hope you are aware that Mueller frequently makes arguments that suggest the possibility of connection, but are far too weak of arguments to prove connection, and that he does this throughout the report. As I've said before, being thorough is a good thing, but don't fool yourself into reading Mueller say "this might have happened" with him saying it happened.
-----
One more thing about Volume I of the Mueller Report...
Imagine the following plotline was introduced into DC Comics: Lex Luthor decides to run for President, and during the campaign The Batman breaks into the buildings of Luthor-affiliated people and organizations — first the office of his political party, then the office of campaign manager Mercedes Graves. Both times irrefutable evidence is extracted indicating the Luthor campaign is acting in an immoral and possibly illegal manner, although nothing has the fingerprints of Lex himself upon it.
Shortly after these break-ins, security contractors for the Luthor campaign say that the intrusion was connected to the Applied Sciences division of Wayne Enterprises, but refuse to let the FBI investigate the evidence directly. The Luthor campaign plays the victim card, denies the validity of the evidence The Batman revealed, and with the support of allies in the press continues the campaign. They narrowly lose to the other candidate, who they immediately accuse of conspiring will Wayne Enterprises for illegal election interference.
An investigation then commences into the break-ins wherein a well-respected, although decidedly anti-vigilante, retired law enforcement officer takes the case and starts putting serious pressure upon The Batman, eventually releasing a report wherein he suggests — but doesn't quite go so far as to actually claim — that Bruce Wayne provides funding for and has intimate knowledge of the Caped Crusader. (That actually sounds like a pretty entertaining storyline.) Additionally, Daily Planet chief Perry White is indicted on multiple counts of publishing illegally procured information, in apparent retaliation for their nonconformist coverage of the Author break-ins.
The point I'm trying to get to here is: do you think the average person, just a Joe Everyman walking the street, would necessarily look at all those developments and think "yes, the Batman broke the law, and we need to hold Wayne Enterprises accountable?" Or would a great many think "Thank God for the Batman, and thank God for Perry White, for giving us the truth, and I hope they're not just pardoned but statues made in their honor?"
Volume I of the Mueller Report details two kinds of election "interference:" the IRA social media campaign and the email hacks/WikiLeaks dumps. As to the first, I think it was wrong and should be prosecuted but ultimately petty — Buff Bernie coloring books weren't going to make 78,000 key people vote Luthor Clinton. In regards to the hacks, when I read Mueller describe how the "attack" was carried out, I feel as if I'm having a vision wherein I'm following down the footsteps of heroes. Whether it was indeed Russians (most likely) or if it was Seth Rich or whoever it was, I for one thank them for their service as a whistleblower in the fight to expose corruption.
Now if you watched The Dark Knight and when it got to the press conference you thought Wayne was a coward for not turning himself in and were genuinely disgusted that Dent would lie to the people of Gotham to cover for him, then I guess you and I simply disagree on several moral issues.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on May 26, 2019, 12:01:57 PM
High confidence from the intelligence agencies is about as good as it gets in that arena. You really are going out on a limb to say that Putin was not aware and was not directing the Russian assistance to Trump in the 2016 election. Plus it is just plain illogical. It really is very old news.
"
Dec 16, 2016 - FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House ... Russia intervened in the 2016 election in part to help Donald Trump win ... campaign because of a personal grudge that Putin had against her.
May 16, 2018 - Republican-run Senate committee says Russia tried to help Trump win ... Vladimir Putin personally ordered the influence campaign to help Trump. ... Russia tried to help Donald Trump win the 2016 election — and Russian ...
Dec 14, 2016 - New intelligence shows that Putin became personally involved in the computer breach, ... 14, 2016, 3:31 PM PST / Updated Dec. ... Ultimately, the CIA has assessed, the Russian government wanted to elect Donald Trump.
Jan 6, 2017 - 28, 2016 file photo, President-elect Donald Trump talks to reporters at Mar-a-Lago ... to help Donald Trump win, according to the declassified version of a long-awaited .... Related: Putin Personally Involved in the Election Hack.
Jan 6, 2017 - Intelligence officials said President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia turned ... V. Putin, personally “ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the ... to assess that Mr. Putin had “aspired to help President-elect Trump's election ...
Jan 6, 2017 - ... Vladimir Putin ordered an "influence campaign" aimed at hurting Hillary Clinton and helping Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election.
Jan 6, 2017 - ... concludes that Russia "aspired to help" Trump's election chances when possible. ... Putin personally ordered an "influence campaign" that aimed to help ... against targets associated with the 2016 US presidential election, ...
Jan 6, 2017 - U.S. intel report: Putin directed cyber campaign to help Trump ... Factbox: U.S. intel report on Russian cyber attacks in 2016 election ... The report suggested Putin was motivated in part by personal animus toward Clinton.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
As Sam would say "...there's still some good in this world...", ain't exactly sure if it's worth fighting for but still. Like this particular song.
Anyways, God Bless America... or Satan (whatever gets the job done), cuz everybody knows that the dice are loaded, and everybody rolls with their fingers crossed; everybody knows the war is over, but the good guys... lost!
Edit:
The funny thing is that I been listening to Leonard's song for years and years, never tried to look it up, I mean the lyrics, I always thought it said the good guys... last (not lost). I guess that goes with the character, whatever that might signify (for good or ill). Until very recently. And it was a revelation, well kind of...
High confidence from the intelligence agencies is about as good as it gets in that arena. You really are going out on a limb to say that Putin was not aware and was not directing the Russian assistance to Trump in the 2016 election. Plus it is just plain illogical. It really is very old news.
"
Dec 16, 2016 - FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House ... Russia intervened in the 2016 election in part to help Donald Trump win ... campaign because of a personal grudge that Putin had against her.
May 16, 2018 - Republican-run Senate committee says Russia tried to help Trump win ... Vladimir Putin personally ordered the influence campaign to help Trump. ... Russia tried to help Donald Trump win the 2016 election — and Russian ...
Dec 14, 2016 - New intelligence shows that Putin became personally involved in the computer breach, ... 14, 2016, 3:31 PM PST / Updated Dec. ... Ultimately, the CIA has assessed, the Russian government wanted to elect Donald Trump.
Jan 6, 2017 - 28, 2016 file photo, President-elect Donald Trump talks to reporters at Mar-a-Lago ... to help Donald Trump win, according to the declassified version of a long-awaited .... Related: Putin Personally Involved in the Election Hack.
Jan 6, 2017 - Intelligence officials said President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia turned ... V. Putin, personally “ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the ... to assess that Mr. Putin had “aspired to help President-elect Trump's election ...
Jan 6, 2017 - ... Vladimir Putin ordered an "influence campaign" aimed at hurting Hillary Clinton and helping Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election.
Jan 6, 2017 - ... concludes that Russia "aspired to help" Trump's election chances when possible. ... Putin personally ordered an "influence campaign" that aimed to help ... against targets associated with the 2016 US presidential election, ...
Jan 6, 2017 - U.S. intel report: Putin directed cyber campaign to help Trump ... Factbox: U.S. intel report on Russian cyber attacks in 2016 election ... The report suggested Putin was motivated in part by personal animus toward Clinton.
WaPo: subscribers only.
Vox: Basically, Senator Burr reads some version of as-yet-unreleased report from NBC2 (below) and echoes its conclusions.
NBC 1: Anonymous source = reporter could be making it up.
NBC 2: The unclassified version of an intelligence assessment by the FBI, CIA and NSA.
NYT: Duplicate coverage of NBC 2.
CNN: Duplicate coverage, again.
Independent: Cites another WaPo article I can't read without subscribing.
NPR: Third duplicate of NBC2.
Reuters: Fifth time's the charm, apparently.
So despite your wall of text, you have at most three credible primary sources, of which at most two lie behind a paywall. It's possible that you're only referring to one primary source.
But perhaps more importantly, how is any of this a reply to my previous post? Those three intelligence agencies said they were "highly confident" Putin directed the hack, but Mueller didn't affirm that conclusion.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
High confidence from the intelligence agencies is about as good as it gets in that arena. You really are going out on a limb to say that Putin was not aware and was not directing the Russian assistance to Trump in the 2016 election. Plus it is just plain illogical. It really is very old news.
"
Dec 16, 2016 - FBI in agreement with CIA that Russia aimed to help Trump win White House ... Russia intervened in the 2016 election in part to help Donald Trump win ... campaign because of a personal grudge that Putin had against her.
May 16, 2018 - Republican-run Senate committee says Russia tried to help Trump win ... Vladimir Putin personally ordered the influence campaign to help Trump. ... Russia tried to help Donald Trump win the 2016 election — and Russian ...
Dec 14, 2016 - New intelligence shows that Putin became personally involved in the computer breach, ... 14, 2016, 3:31 PM PST / Updated Dec. ... Ultimately, the CIA has assessed, the Russian government wanted to elect Donald Trump.
Jan 6, 2017 - 28, 2016 file photo, President-elect Donald Trump talks to reporters at Mar-a-Lago ... to help Donald Trump win, according to the declassified version of a long-awaited .... Related: Putin Personally Involved in the Election Hack.
Jan 6, 2017 - Intelligence officials said President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia turned ... V. Putin, personally “ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the ... to assess that Mr. Putin had “aspired to help President-elect Trump's election ...
Jan 6, 2017 - ... Vladimir Putin ordered an "influence campaign" aimed at hurting Hillary Clinton and helping Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election.
Jan 6, 2017 - ... concludes that Russia "aspired to help" Trump's election chances when possible. ... Putin personally ordered an "influence campaign" that aimed to help ... against targets associated with the 2016 US presidential election, ...
Jan 6, 2017 - U.S. intel report: Putin directed cyber campaign to help Trump ... Factbox: U.S. intel report on Russian cyber attacks in 2016 election ... The report suggested Putin was motivated in part by personal animus toward Clinton.
WaPo: subscribers only.
Vox: Basically, Senator Burr reads some version of as-yet-unreleased report from NBC2 (below) and echoes its conclusions.
NBC 1: Anonymous source = reporter could be making it up.
NBC 2: The unclassified version of an intelligence assessment by the FBI, CIA and NSA.
NYT: Duplicate coverage of NBC 2.
CNN: Duplicate coverage, again.
Independent: Cites another WaPo article I can't read without subscribing.
NPR: Third duplicate of NBC2.
Reuters: Fifth time's the charm, apparently.
So despite your wall of text, you have at most three credible primary sources, of which at most two lie behind a paywall. It's possible that you're only referring to one primary source.
But perhaps more importantly, how is any of this a reply to my previous post? Those three intelligence agencies said they were "highly confident" Putin directed the hack, but Mueller didn't affirm that conclusion.
Hmmm. here's some wise words I heard someplace. I suggest you may want to take them to heart?
"
Impeacher please believe me when I say this comes from a place of love: you have become so biased that you've basically destroyed your reading comprehension skills. While this is strange, it isn't THAT strange — occasionally even I misread things due to bias. Slow down, stop assuming that reality will consistently agree with you, and take a moment to figure out what it is people are actually saying.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
Jan 6, 2017 - U.S. intel report: Putin directed cyber campaign to help Trump ... Factbox: U.S. intel report on Russian cyber attacks in 2016 election ... The report suggested Putin was motivated in part by personal animus toward Clinton.
More than wanting Trump to win, Putin wanted Clinton to lose. That's why during the primaries, there was a massive Kremlin effort to hurt Clinton and help Sanders. Once Clinton prevailed, the effort switched to exclusively helping Trump.
For Putin, ANYTHING was going to be better than being slapped around by Clinton.
Maybe there's something about bullies not doing well when confronted by strong intelligent women? They might even be so stupid and unstable as to call themselves a very stable genius in those type situations?
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
Jan 6, 2017 - U.S. intel report: Putin directed cyber campaign to help Trump ... Factbox: U.S. intel report on Russian cyber attacks in 2016 election ... The report suggested Putin was motivated in part by personal animus toward Clinton.
More than wanting Trump to win, Putin wanted Clinton to lose. That's why during the primaries, there was a massive Kremlin effort to hurt Clinton and help Sanders. Once Clinton prevailed, the effort switched to exclusively helping Trump.
For Putin, ANYTHING was going to be better than being slapped around by Clinton.
I disagree.
The social media campaign of the Internet Research Agency turned on Trump the instant it seemed he would be the President-Elect. Michael Moore physically attended an anti-Trump rally in NYC on Nov 9, 2016 promoted by the IRA on social media. The IRA didn't even wait until election day was over; they turned out a dime.
The one constant in Russian meddling has been to undermine whomever seemed likely to be the future (or current) President of the United States of America. The IRA is looking at the Democrats' constant attempts to undermine Trump's authority and smiling in approval.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on May 26, 2019, 8:16:21 PM
More than wanting Trump to win, Putin wanted Clinton to lose. That's why during the primaries, there was a massive Kremlin effort to hurt Clinton and help Sanders. Once Clinton prevailed, the effort switched to exclusively helping Trump.
For Putin, ANYTHING was going to be better than being slapped around by Clinton.
I disagree.
The social media campaign of the Internet Research Agency turned on Trump the instant it seemed he would be the President-Elect. Michael Moore physically attended an anti-Trump rally in NYC on Nov 9, 2016 promoted by the IRA on social media. The IRA didn't even wait until election day was over; they turned out a dime.
The one constant in Russian meddling has been to undermine whomever seemed likely to be the future (or current) President of the United States of America. The IRA is looking at the Democrats' constant attempts to undermine Trump's authority and smiling in approval.
What you said does not disagree with what The_Impeacher said. I think that you're both correct. Although it is apparently true that Putin had a special dislike of Clinton and blamed her for some unrest in Russia when she was Secretary of state.
The fact is that Russia helped Trump to win in 2016. I thought it was not really debatable that Putin was behind that but I guess I was wrong about that. I hope that it is not debatable that Putin wants to destabilize our country as well as our allies.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
Last edited by Turtledove#4014 on May 26, 2019, 8:42:17 PM
