ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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DalaiLama wrote:

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Boem wrote:

Define harassment? Because routinely stopping and searching black people in a neighbourhood where the statistics prove they commit most of the crimes is just the most effective method of discouraging and preventing crime.

Just like i would want cops to focus white people, hispanics or asians if they where the majority's commiting crimes.

After a certain period of time patrolling an area, good police officers get a sense for who seems to fit in a neighborhood and who doesn't. Whether the car is too nice or too shabby, driving too slow, or circling around the block for the fifth time - something arouses their suspicions, and they pull the person over.

I've been pulled over before for not matching the ethnicity of the neighborhood. The officer was convinced something nefarious was going on until he verified that the coworker I had dropped off (his car broke down) did live nearby.

I didn't fault the officer. Something seemed out of place to him and he was protecting the area he was employed to protect.

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Boem wrote:

For example a study showed that a police force was stopping more black and hispanic drivers for control. So they did a study and looked at the data from night-time(when racial prejudice cannot occur, since cars are stopped before race could be identified), nothing changed in the outcomes of the data sets.

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Our statistical analysis of these records proceeds in
three steps. First, we assess potential bias in stop decisions by applying the “veil of darkness” test developed
by Grogger and Ridgeway [13]. The test is based on a simple observation: because the sun sets at different times
throughout the year, one can examine the racial composition of stopped drivers as a function of sunlight while
controlling for time of day. If black drivers make up a
smaller share of stopped drivers after sunset, when it is
difficult to determine a driver’s race, that suggests black
drivers were stopped before sunset in part because of their
race. In both state patrol and municipal police stops, we
find that black drivers comprise a smaller proportion of
drivers stopped after sunset, which is suggestive of racial
bias in stop decisions.

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Turtledove wrote:

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we find that black drivers comprise a smaller proportion of drivers stopped after sunset, which is suggestive of racial bias in stop decisions.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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we find that black drivers comprise a smaller proportion of drivers stopped after sunset, which is suggestive of racial bias in stop decisions.

Not really. Here is a sound logic chain for that conclusion:
Premise 1: The ratio of black drivers — pulled over or not — to nonblack drivers stopped before sunset is equal to or less than the ratio of black drivers to nonblack drivers after sunset.
Premise 2: The rate of suspicious behavior (that is, to actually warrant pulling over) on the part of black drivers before sunset is equal to or less than the rate of suspicious behavior of black drivers after sunset.
Premise 3: The rate of pulling over black drivers relative to nonblack drivers before sunset is greater than the rate of pulling them over after sunset.
Therefore: the motive behind pulling over the black drivers before sunset is partially motivated by racism.

You need all 3 premises to really prove it; I'd consider 2 out of 3 suggestive. 1 out of 3 is just a situation with no particular inquiry into the cause. As it stands, you're only citing evidence of one premise.

Here's one possible non-racist explanation: let's imagine that black people in this area are more likely to drive cars with expired registration. Drivers of cars with expired registration are less likely to be pulled over at night, so a greater percentage of black drivers would be pulled over during daylight hours.

If I was some kind of peace officer with authority (e.g. judge, police chief) and you came to me with only evidence of premise 3, I'd advise you to collect evidence of premise 1 — which would be simple enough, it's just a random sampling of drivers over different time periods — and dismiss you. If you then came with evidence of premises 1 and 3, I'd say that would merit an investigation, but not yet be proof of guilt.

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which is suggestive of racial bias in stop decisions.

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Turtledove wrote:

I will assert that race is a more likely explanation than the possibilities that you suggested.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

I will assert that race is a more likely explanation than the possibilities that you suggested.

A. An accusation of racism is a serious thing, a stigma worthy of ruining a person's career, marriage and social life, and therefore accusations should only be made when supremely confident of guilt — not merely "more likely than" alternative explanations.
B. Someone who is racist isn't necessarily a bad person overall, therefore it is okay to casually call someone a racist because it's not like they'll get fired or get divorced or anything.

Choose only one.

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Turtledove wrote:

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Boem wrote:

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faerwin wrote:

The only? no.

But it is a big one. It might also be drilled into officers that blacks are much more dangerous and as such a non-racist is more prone to shoot a black than not due to racist protocols/trainers. It's more complex than simply "cops are all racist" but denying that racism is a part of the problem is ridiculous.

That's hardly what you stated previously and all of a sudden it's being "drilled into people".

So what if my counter-argument is "gang culture indoctrinates youth to not comply with authority on the street and view them as enemys"?

And what if i told you statements like "cops are racist's" is doing the same thing, polarize normal people and cops.

And what about black cops shooting black perpetrators? Are they racists?

Have you seen the discussions on cop applications drops ever since the "racist cops" movement started? What do you think happens to crime in general when a station is understaffed.

Did you know that more black lives have been lost since the "racism bias" concept was introduced? Since cops are no longer pro-actively policing black neighbourhoods out of fear of being judged bigots or having to cope with consequences of such a label.
(concept was introduced in 2015, black homicide rates have risen in inner-city's, if i remember correctly chicago has a 73% increase, unprecedented)

Keep beating the drum, but realise your forcing people in a camp against cops by doing it and at the same time hollowing out the usage of the word "racist" by stigmatizing entire groups of people under that label.

Carry on, i hope you realize or at least contemplate the consequences though.

Peace,

-Boem-

Cops are sometimes racist. More or less than the population as a whole, I don't know. My old neighbor of 25 years was black. (I'm white.) In those 25 years I never got stopped by the police once in our neighborhood. He got stopped and harassed at least a dozen times in our neighborhood. None of those times did he get a ticket or anything. It was just racial profiling and harassment.

What I do know though is that it is worse having a racist cop than a racist truck driver or racist computer programmer.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

It wasn't a Muslim ban, Aim.