Energy Shield and Life

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CBEToffOP wrote:

1) Life build comes WITHOUT Armor/Evasion?!

You cant even read. It's great that GGG don't listen to players cause they know nothing about the game, just whine 24*7.

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CBEToffOP wrote:

1) Life build comes WITHOUT Armor/Evasion?!
2) Does Life build have problems with Shock/freeze/ignite/Stun/... from monsters(non-bosses)?
3) Can ES be restored with flasks?
4) Can ES build use MIND OVER MATTER mechanics?

ES pool never should be equal to Life pool!

1) It seems you didnt read what I wrote. Also, ES can't use armour? Thats new to me.
2) Yes, they do. And ES can use auxium (which i actually did in my example), chayula, unwavering stance.
3) Funny how often flasks are coming up here. How usefull is a 3k slow refill? ES refills automatically after not being hit and much faster than with life flasks. Personally, I mostly use flasks to refill after not having full hp after a fight.
4) Yes, sure they can but it will only help hybrid builds. I can turn that one around: are life builds immune to chaos damage?

I'm not saying ES pool should be equal do life pool (again, it seems you didnt read what I wrote). But it should be possible to get a somewhat similar effective life pool (with ES still being larger, Which will be the case).

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homeofSummoner wrote:

Your choice data is completely bias and therefore irrelevant. U said Necromancer will have 17k ES?? only with CHOICE OF GEAR u provided:
Pls take into account Build Uniques required which and accomplished Summoner will use;
and damage// of Summoner is not great after many nerfs over the years we simply have to invest half passive points in minions & minion damage. Best I ever had was around 12k ES; currently running on 9.5 ES. My gear is not best so maybe someone with more currency and crafting knowledge have better, and even the it wouldn't make that much difference.

Oh oh...so for ES we have to take into account uniques but not for life? If you do the same for life, it will drop down to (really) ridiculous numbers, too and not to 'just 9.5k' but 4k to 6k. Look at all the 'normal' players with 4k life at lvl 80. If you take uniques, it is your choise. Build enabling uniques come (almost) always with a sacrifice in defense or offense. I used rares for both calculations (or uniques that are cheaper than rares, like auxium). You want me to replace kaoms or belly by a rare, too? Ok, that drops the max life even further.

And I also stated the ES without any ascendancies, just fyi. Which is still way beyond the life build (16k with discipline). And life builds don't even have the option to increase their life with an ascendancy.

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kuddman wrote:

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homeofSummoner wrote:

Your choice data is completely bias and therefore irrelevant. U said Necromancer will have 17k ES?? only with CHOICE OF GEAR u provided:
Pls take into account Build Uniques required which and accomplished Summoner will use;
and damage// of Summoner is not great after many nerfs over the years we simply have to invest half passive points in minions & minion damage. Best I ever had was around 12k ES; currently running on 9.5 ES. My gear is not best so maybe someone with more currency and crafting knowledge have better, and even the it wouldn't make that much difference.

Oh oh...so for ES we have to take into account uniques but not for life? If you do the same for life, it will drop down to (really) ridiculous numbers, too and not to 'just 9.5k but 4k to 6k. Look at all the 'normal' players with 4k life at lvl 80. If you take uniques, it is your choise. Build enabling uniques come (almost) always with a sacrifice in defense or offense. I used rares for both calculations (or uniques that are cheaper than rares, like auxium). You want me to replace kaoms or belly by a rare, too? Ok, that drops the max life even further.

And I also stated the ES without any ascendancies, just fyi. Which is still way beyond the life build (16k with discipline).

Listen sunshine ES doesn't owe u nothing. Again ridiculous to even contemplate that life is somehow worse of, u don't know what u talking about I already proved u wrong; u acknowledged that 9.5k ES is a good random number right? Well not really go ahead feel free to play Summoner ES.

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kuddman wrote:

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CBEToffOP wrote:

1) Life build comes WITHOUT Armor/Evasion?!
2) Does Life build have problems with Shock/freeze/ignite/Stun/... from monsters(non-bosses)?
3) Can ES be restored with flasks?
4) Can ES build use MIND OVER MATTER mechanics?

ES pool never should be equal to Life pool!

1) It seems you didnt read what I wrote. Also, ES can't use armour? Thats new to me.
2) Yes, they do. And ES can use auxium (which i actually did in my example), chayula, unwavering stance.
3) Funny how often flasks are coming up here. How usefull is a 3k slow refill? ES refills automatically after not being hit and much faster than with life flasks. Personally, I mostly use flasks to refill after not having full hp after a fight.
4) Yes, sure they can but it will only help hybrid builds. I can turn that one around: are life builds immune to chaos damage?

I'm not saying ES pool should be equal do life pool (again, it seems you didnt read what I wrote). But it should be possible to get a somewhat similar effective life pool (with ES still being larger, Which will be the case).

1) ES items doesn't come with armor/evasion (hybrid only, but it has lower ES). Life build items comes with Armor/Evasion!
2) Yes there are items like auxium/chayula, but you said about amulet with % ES?! As i said before, ES build have to compromise choosing items which gives basically only this and nothing all, while Life doesn't need concern themselves about it and choose BiS items.
3) ES refill only for long ranged builds, what about ES melee build? RIP?


I agree that ES and Life pool should be equally effective, but i don't understand reasons for Vaal Pact CUT FOR ES!
If GGG trying to make Life and ES equally effective why did he RIP ES melee builds?

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homeofSummoner wrote:

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kuddman wrote:

"

homeofSummoner wrote:

Your choice data is completely bias and therefore irrelevant. U said Necromancer will have 17k ES?? only with CHOICE OF GEAR u provided:
Pls take into account Build Uniques required which and accomplished Summoner will use;
and damage// of Summoner is not great after many nerfs over the years we simply have to invest half passive points in minions & minion damage. Best I ever had was around 12k ES; currently running on 9.5 ES. My gear is not best so maybe someone with more currency and crafting knowledge have better, and even the it wouldn't make that much difference.

Oh oh...so for ES we have to take into account uniques but not for life? If you do the same for life, it will drop down to (really) ridiculous numbers, too and not to 'just 9.5k but 4k to 6k. Look at all the 'normal' players with 4k life at lvl 80. If you take uniques, it is your choise. Build enabling uniques come (almost) always with a sacrifice in defense or offense. I used rares for both calculations (or uniques that are cheaper than rares, like auxium). You want me to replace kaoms or belly by a rare, too? Ok, that drops the max life even further.

And I also stated the ES without any ascendancies, just fyi. Which is still way beyond the life build (16k with discipline).

Listen sunshine ES doesn't owe u nothing. Again ridiculous to even contemplate that life is somehow worse of, u don't know what u talking about I already proved u wrong; u acknowledged that 9.5k ES is a good random number right? Well not really go ahead feel free to play Summoner ES.

I didnt acknowledge anything, I took your word as enough (not being like you). As a matter of fact, your example of a summoner is heavily biased because you use this build as base (which probably needs certain passives on the tree). I, however, use the life and es nodes in the passive tree as base and then optimize life and es pool and how much passives are left to build something around that. You could still say that this is biased. The question, however is, which of the two examples makes more sense to determine whether the ES pool can get too big too easily. Counter question: can you make your build work on a life base with enough life to survive just like your ES summoner?

I have 12 000 ES with all stuff buffed and I can barely play on the latest maps.
While 4000 Life build have no problems at all.

I am again witness another game taking the nerf train against the casters.

Just remember - if You angry the casters - your game will die, and it will become dead and forgotten.

The casters is the main driving force of any online RPG game.

Disregarding how cool is your game - it will die if you try anything against them.
There is none known case any negative action taken against the casters to went unpunished severely.

I am just stating the reality.

And no - this is not a balance. this is mind cr*p.

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CBEToffOP wrote:

1) ES items doesn't come with armor/evasion (hybrid only, but it has lower ES). Life build items comes with Armor/Evasion!
2) Yes there are items like auxium/chayula, but you said about amulet with % ES?! As i said before, ES build have to compromise choosing items which gives basically only this and nothing all, while Life doesn't need concern themselves about it and choose BiS items.
3) ES refill only for long ranged builds, what about ES melee build? RIP?


I agree that ES and Life pool should be equally effective, but i don't understand reasons for Vaal Pact CUT FOR ES!
If GGG trying to make Life and ES equally effective why did he RIP ES melee builds?

1) Life items dont come with high evasion or armour necessarily, either. Also, you need around 35k of armour to mitigate a 13k physical hit to below 10k. Heavy investment in the tree and t1 life and armour items would be necessary which are much more expensive than the es example i gave.

2) I said there'd be an increase if you get amu and ring es% enchant. without this it is still 14.5k. Take away the 40 flat es from the amulett i took and you end up with 14.3k and chayula. In addition, life has the 'compromise' to choose less life nodes and get the same amount of damage nodes the es build has. That being said, you could also invest the 10-15 additional nodes you have to get to unwavering stance instead of sacrificing your amulett.

3) When I started playing PoE, ES seemed to me as an additional protection for range dds. I don't mind melee es builds and I thought nerfing vaal pact that much might be a bit too much. There were other options, I guess. However, it still might be possible to leech instantly with acuities (at least I haven't read about it not being possible officially). In the Manifesto it says Vaal Pact explicitly.

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SonicPLD2 wrote:

I have 12 000 ES with all stuff buffed and I can barely play on the latest maps.
While 4000 Life build have no problems at all.

I am again witness another game taking the nerf train against the casters.

Just remember - if You angry the casters - your game will die, and it will become dead and forgotten.

The casters is the main driving force of any online RPG game.

Disregarding how cool is your game - it will die if you try anything against them.
There is none known case any negative action taken against the casters to went unpunished severely.

I am just stating the reality.

And no - this is not a balance. this is mind cr*p.

Nice point of view. You don't think there is a connection between most people playing caster/avoiding melee and the fact that they are op?

And you don't start doubting your playstyle if you, with 12k ES, can't do the maps but a player with 4k life can?

I didnt acknowledge anything, I took your word as enough (not being like you). As a matter of fact, your example of a summoner is heavily biased because you use this build as base (which probably needs certain passives on the tree). I, however, use the life and es nodes in the passive tree as base and then optimize life and es pool and how much passives are left to build something around that. You could still say that this is biased. The question, however is, which of the two examples makes more sense to determine whether the ES pool can get too big too easily. Counter question: can you make your build work on a life base with enough life to survive just like your ES summoner?[/quote]

Again u not paying attention; cos I guess u don't really know Summoners. and what ur saying bla bla.
If I don't respond after this post its bec I feel sorry for my self, I can't take it ES been nurfed outrage how can it happen. And survive when did that become part of game. Listen to what ur saying SURVIVEEEEEE??
If I knew how to survive I wouldn't be wasting my time vining to you.

Let me tell u something here u fish hole monkey; regardless ill be playing something as I always do. Trouble is I don't know what yet, but that's not my doing (thanks GGG)
Who knows life hybrid Summoner may work better aha and ill be still surviving.