2.6.0 Area of Effect Changes

way to go people complained a long time for some changes to make reave somewhat nonawkward to play now u reduce its AOE by quite a lot so it gets less use sometimes i don't understand GGG's of *balancing* and here i thought you wanna bring underused gem's a bit up and not make them worse

"

Kenrian wrote:

Can GGG make an AOE calculator ?
Cause mechanics are really vague, and it should be really simple to do.

If i understand well firt nodes / sources of increased area are more effective and its decreased to be less effective in total.

And when i see your schemas, i imagine that support gem "Increased Area of effect" its less effective than before cause it's give a lot of AOE.

But a melee splash with a +8 increased AOE node will be more effective than before ?

it seem to look like this :


So i think it's pretty cool in general, cause you have a better cover with less
investment. That mean for me : no need to focus to much on AOE anymore.

Thank you: this is something I actually do understand. Idk about everyone else, but I would have preferred either a numerical comparison of radius or a direct formula to use for calculating radius. I was debating about trying cyclone but now, I don't think so.

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Shppy wrote:

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Rory wrote:

Extreme min-max AoE builds are nerfed by these changes. Builds that didn't go all-in on AoE are generally helped somewhat.

This is an outright lie and you know it. With the numbers you've cited, there is not one single instance where any amount of increased area will be 'helped' compared to the exact same investment pre-2.6. Even picking up a single minor 'increased area' node will yield less results than one single minor 'increased radius' node does now... so what, even 5% increased radius is considered 'going all-in on AoE'?

I'll agree that going overboard with massive investment in AoE needed to be toned down (even though it'll just be replaced by piercing projectiles that can clear more screens with even less investment), but you're even punishing the people just grabbing one freaking aoe cluster and nothing more, you're punishing ANYONE that cares about applying auras to anyone but themselves, and yes, run the numbers, you're even punishing melee splash despite a promised buff (and that image is a lie too, the current 19% more radius would provide higher coverage than 38% more area)


This is a pure nerf to aoe; it may be a heavier nerf at higher extremes, but it is undeniably a nerf at any investment at all, and to claim otherwise when the most cursory examination of the numbers will prove you wrong is just deluded.



*edit: Ooo, I was wrong, this is exactly one instance where an 'increased area' source's number was buffed up enough to make it actually better: Deadeye's "Endless Munitions" going from 20% increased radius to 50% increased area is actually a slight buff provided you have no other increased aoe.

So there you go, the patch that will make bow/projectile builds king again has actually provided one potential instance where you could actually get higher increased AoE than before, it's found in... the bow/projectile ascendancy.

Are you dumb ur just blind? They made basic area of some skills bigger than before. A lot of those skills are better with inc. aoe gem + 1 aoe cluster than before. You can see how much bugger RF will be now compared to old one.

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wackyburkay wrote:

As long as Warchief remins same, I am going for it!

Its also nerfed. Unless you dont use any inc AoE - on passives or gear or links. Pretty much every source of AoE increase was nerfed. Some a lot.

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Aynix wrote:

Are you dumb ur just blind? They made basic area of some skills bigger than before. A lot of those skills are better with inc. aoe gem + 1 aoe cluster than before. You can see how much bugger RF will be now compared to old one.

You dont get it, literally all skills, that got no baseline increase in range, got heavily gimped! Also skills like Lightning arrow, because they did NOT touch many AoE-skills (no increase in base AoE nor Gemlevel AoE increases), but they are still impacted by the AoE nerf! Therefore its a nerf for many skills!

How will ice storm be affected by this. Same as firestorm?

"

xX999Xx wrote:

You dont get it, literally all skills, that got no baseline increase in range, got heavily gimped! Also skills like Lightning arrow, because they did NOT touch many AoE-skills (no increase in base AoE nor Gemlevel AoE increases), but they are still impacted by the AoE nerf! Therefore its a nerf for many skills!

You said that literally every single skill that has AoE in this game got nerfed. That's why I asked you If you are dumb or blind. Looks like you got smarter and changed it to "many skills".
I don't rly give a shit. I played Fire Storm, Lightning Arrow, Ground Slam and Flameblast. All of those 4 builds got nerfed. Do you see me crying because "OMG NOW MY BUILD I SHIT< FUCK YOU GGG NO MONEY FOR YOU!!! ONE ONE ONE"
Retarded crybabies everywhere...

Hi Rory i thanks for clarification but:

i saw no mention about detonate dead, and as many who love this skill im quit concerned

°detonate dead Vaal detonate Dead

and many persons asked me also about:

° Vaal Bruning Arrow and Burning Arrow and The burning ground and tar groun

° Lightning Tendrill

° Herald Of Ash

° Ice Storm

° Abyssal Cry


i know your busy tanks you very much :)


Oh and one last thing: i really really do hope these Powerfull node behind Mind Over Matter who where so Hyped for such a powerfull build....

are taking into account:

° MoM is used in conjonction with Eldricht Battery where more mana is ussuless when we reserve it all

° When chosing between a mana node or a life node a life node is usually better

° The node giving Damage taken as mana are almost never taken (too loo)



I got really concerned and in disbelief when i read that sentence.... if the node give a very big mana increase (but that will make it like mandatory) or a big 8% of damage taken gained as mana but in both case they will be fairly useless for EB build.


Giving them hybrid, mana + life + es would be super sexy for all but i doubt it happend.

Actually the best node for MoM user is Chaos Innoculation + Vaal Packt, in the current state:


° Mana leeching is useless , you will never recover enough.
° Mana gain is the same
° Mana recovery too

Almost in any case you end up to arround 5.5 to 6k life and 1.5 to 2.8k mana, you could add some ES here but:

° you will be unable to replenish them reliabily
° you could do it but you'l still be in one-shot range and you will gimp your damage and have an abysmal clear speed
° C VP Hierophant is better have better damage and almost always a 0 Mana cost of Skill and you can reserve almost all you mana.


° a 8k CI VP Hierophant withotu Vaal discipline have a btter survivability, damage and clear speed and is cheaper

than

° a 6k Life 2.8k Mana, 2.5 ES (10300 EHP ) Hierophant.



I have been toying for quit some time with that, build arround all the uniques availlable, was super fun, but in the end if it had to compete, it cannot simply.

By the way i took a Hierophant as an exemple because it's the straight class for MoM, but Trickster is also super good, some play also necro and so on.

*** i dont intent to start the CI vs life rant, but i want to ( i really really, from the bottom of my heart hope ) try to catch you attention on that.

When you say " More Powerfull than Ever " you'r very close to Shatter hope here cause expectations are great.

Actually investing in mana for a MoM build, except for a support build (Guardian) is almost pretty useless, mana cannot do damage [ if you made that possible...oh my!!! )


cheer best regards


wikarina


p.s. i wanted make a rant, when i saw the manifesto....:

Vaal Discipline has been destroyed (trapper, miner, and some totem, cannot be done now... and for CI VP user.. not a big deal they have instant leech, but No Leech build has been screwed big time, rip build diversity)

Heavy Strike Jewel has been killed.... with many Jewel it was just barelly decent...sure you could have a 300k dps tool tip but no where near the clear speed or survivability of a 70k dps build... and that was with 5 fo them (62%) + the helm enchant..

Had the Mention about MoM and you made an angry Mob Pitchforking! but the French speaking communities isnt very present on reddit or in the forum.

For my part, i got concerned and at first decided to stop streaming PoE and to quit even tough i was pretty hyped for for 2.6


I heard many rant about the Xbox strike team and why dont moment were spent over guilde, or QoL or the UI and i told thant this gave the rise to the performance improvment and new skill we are enjoying now.



but for the developpment manifesto for 2.6 I was the one ranting and looking doubtfully at what has been done....took a few day to let it slide, and restarted to stream and spread the PoE love again, but it took time to make all these concerns (they are still there) and turn them to positive energy

cant' wait about these note and if that MoM will be powerfull has ever, opening new build over the grave of the other

The real despair comes when you look at map mods changes, since numbers are increased to match the previous effective radius, you can see the magnitude of the nerf

Take "of Giants" mod for example:
20% --> 45% increased Area of Effect on White Maps
30% --> 70% increased Area of Effect on Yellow Maps
40% --> 100% increased Area of Effect on Red Maps

This means that if you want the same radius as before the nerf on unthouched by changes skills/effects, now you need 2,25-2.50x times the AMOUNT of aoe increase you had before; that doesn't mean taking more than double the inc aoe sources because some of them had their numbers increased (like inc aoe support and passive nodes) but not by much, so it's still a significant struggle (if it's even possible, for some skills without any help from helm enchants or space for inc aoe uniques it probably won't)

GGG, first of all:
Stop balancing for things that will go out in the next patch. I.e. 2.6.0 changes making sense only once you roll out 3.0

Second of all: Melee in this game is in each and every scenario worse than spells/bows. You need to solve this and yet you just gutted almost every melee skill out there.
"But the baseline damage on 1h weapons will increase!"

Look at Blade Flurry.
This skill was comparable to spells in clear speed and boss killing speed with the same investment in gear.
What did you do with it?
You nerfed it's damage (and potentially AoE).

The only two other melee skills which were comparable were EQ and Reave. Both got a big AoE nerf.

Also: You can't balance skills to items, you do it the other way around.

HoWA BF is overpowered, you nerf HoWA.
Bino's double dipping BF is overpowered, you nerf Bino's.
And I thought that, with the dagger nerfs, you picked up on that, but it seems you didn't.
You don't nerf the skill!

I really don't know what to say... The balance team in this game has shown time and time again that they are idiots.

I really don't want to offend anyone, but unless you come out and say: We want spells to be superior to melee in every regard, in my mind you are idiots.


Here's a scenario:

Take Bino's: a cheap, overpowered dagger.
Take Obliteration: a cheap, overpowered wand.

Invest the same ammount of currency into other gear. Don't play CI. Play either an ES hybrid or Low Life with the wand and Life with Bino's.

Play Reave or Blade Flurry with Bino's. Play Blade Vortex with Obliteration. (After the AoE changes)

And then tell me that BF and Reave deserved a nerf.


"But they do more damage than skills of the same type." - Do you know why that is? Because the other skills of the same type (melee) SUCK! when compared to ranged/spells.



That's just the endgame. Don't even get me started on leveling as melee...