Map Changes in 2.0.4

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Ground Effects in Maps
There's a lot of work still to do on ground effects. However, in 2.0.4, some changes have been made to how they spawn in maps. These changes have the following consequences:
Ground effects due to map mods now use significantly less server resources. This prevents problems occurring during times of peak player concurrency.
Ground effects due to map mods now use significantly less bandwidth, which will result in much less lockstep stuttering. They will also contribute far less towards being disconnected when coming through portals.



Aleluya!!!!! love GGG!!!
Probably the worst manifesto post I've ever read. Kind of upset I came back to the game for Warbands...
GGG mentality: you can play our game, but every 15 minutes we take a meat slicer to your nipple.
All of my friends stopped playing ~maps lvl 74, because higher maps don't drop. You should not gate content behind artificial RNG block, but make high level maps dangerous enough that it is danger that would be the blocking reason. Don't spawn silly slow moving helpless zombies in high level maps, have a set of monsters that could populate the given map. Act IV monsters make tropical island dangerous enough, that sometimes i would choose to bail from it. Do the same for higher level maps.
Me and a friend been playing poe on and off but played a little more serious when awakening dropped. Our highest now is 90.

My input from being a new player who just started mapping in 2.0 is pretty simple.

Glad for the map drop buff. I have a ton of 68-74 maps lying around as a 90 char and anything above that seems like a rare drop. Kinda irritating so it feels like we have to keep running low level maps and the exp is gutter trash, and progressing past 90 seems something we just dont want to do. We havent even experienced any 80+ maps since they are so difficult to find. So in all honestly the exp nerf makes less sense then it does now. Hopefully the map drops are as plentiful as you say to offset that.

Glad the monster damage is changing, makes low level maps really feel like low level maps. Sometimes it feels like for some builds low maps are hitting me super hard.

Tier change makes it a bit more confusing tbh and the game is already complex enough. I wish you guys would just change it to where when you hit "Alt" it has ilvl/level range and just keep the level zone. That would negate all the confusion, keep OG players happy and lets us somewhat newer players know what we are getting into.

Color changes seem nice and grant a nice notice in the difficulty in maps.

Ground effect change is a great and needed change, My second HC char died at 72 due to lighting ground effects and it was rage.

Overall these are pretty good changes, and hopefully we can now do some consistent high level content instead of running the same dog shit low level maps over and over again.
" "High level maps run through Zana"
daily zena quests are fun maps.. actually the only fun maps I find these days.. as it is an unknown rare map and with a mini quest added to it..
standard maps are boring. sorry.
perhaps if you added miniquests to them they would be more appealing to the average player.. you know do a little scrpting, a little bit of text, nothing too fancy to take the I am grinding feel out of this.

and btw high level maps are way too rare. the char I play in warbands is level 86 and has NEVER seen a 77 or above map drop. NOT ONE. by the time I find one (if I still play by then) I will be so past the Map level it will be just more trash.
have finally gotten used to the lab... I dont hate it anymore.:)
Last edited by Xirgu on Sep 24, 2015, 4:06:08 PM
looks like you people in GGG have some prety awesome monitoring soft for use. to analyse dis tings. probably custom soft.

i'd say many people would pay for this, just to look at some numbers, and to rattle even more about them )
Last edited by old_joe on Sep 24, 2015, 4:17:57 PM
Chris, you always make me smile :)
"Teamwork is OP"
-The one and only one Dark_Reaper115 at your service.
"
Prisma01 wrote:


From 68's to 75's
We could get a Grotto - Tier 1 (easy)
We could get a Pit - Tier 3 (difficult)

From 75's to 82's
We could get an Arsenal - Tier 1 (easy)
We could get a Colosseum - Tier 5 (very difficult)

Upper tiers could give more xp. More IIR, IIQ. More map dropping.

I mean, you could take the idea and form a new way of looking into endgame. Not just the way to 100, but the way in which build would feel more safe, more challenged or more rewarding.

I think that GGG is really hitting something here, but it's not quite there yet.

Can't we really have both? Or more?
<3 Free Tibet <3
"
Harmona wrote:

Now for the rest of your dedicated fans who play this awesome game a reasonable number of hours/week. Read carefully:
- you are CRIPPLING our game experience for NO GOOD REASON.
- we want CHALLENGING CONTENT that feels REWARDING (note: BOTH challenging AND rewarding).
- we will get tired of our character before reaching level 100, but part of us secretly manages the idea of dinging 100, someday... you just BLEW that delusion (which, by the way, translates in more income for you, indirectly).
- what mostly kills the joy of playing this game is that its PAINFULLY HARD to find a party to run high tier maps, and even more disappointing that one of the members has to be a dedicated MFER or the drops won't even cover the currency expended to roll the maps.
- past level 85, this game turns out to be mostly SINGLEPLAYER... people like other people to tag with (yeah, yeah, there is always a lone wolf...) and have fun together. IMPROVE your LFG system and incentivize people to play in groups. Make it EVEN MORE REWARDING to play in a FULL PARTY.


I agree with this wholeheartedly, aside from the last point - I prefer solo play, and I know quite a few people who do. Groups are already incentivized with built-in drop buffs, and it isn't fun for everyone to drag some deadweight players around a map like anchors (or on the other side of the coin, there are players who like to take their time and not feel like they're being dragged around a map by an elitist)
Last edited by Funkdubious on Sep 24, 2015, 4:37:00 PM
I already posted my initial thoughts last night, but I thought I'd sleep on it and give the proposed changes in this manifesto more consideration and another chance at impressing me... and sweet baby RNGesus, it looks even worse with a fresh set of eyes. You have real issues with what end-game content you currently have, so your solution is to put a bunch of band-aids on it and call it a day. Except you're using duct tape in place of band-aids; I can tell you it will make your players even more sore when you have to remove it. Objectively speaking, not much is actually changing and probably won't have a significant long-term impact, but subjectively, it looks like the beginning of the end for PoE. The nerf to 79+ maps won't affect most players in a huge way, but it will worsen the experience of more casual players who want to make the grind to 100, at least with your current, horribly repetitive end-game. And as for the tier system, it really is a tier 1 failure... or would that be tier 15 now? I'm still laughing about how bad that idea is. Many things over the years have made me suspect that GGG is composed of more alchemists than real, pensive game developers, but now I think that it's confirmed that the GGG way (tm) is to try the first idea that pops into a developer's head and see what happens. Sure, this is much easier than really thinking about the effects a change could have on existing content and the player experience, but seriously determining and discussing the pros and cons of changes that are more that tiny number tweaks could go a long way toward improving your image (you could even run some proposed changes by a selection of highly experienced and active community members before unveiling them to everyone so as not to look so amateurish).

In short, these map "changes" change very little, but will force all existing players to adapt to some really pointless convolutions of the current map system and make the grind to level 100 (it's not called a "grind" because it's the most exciting thing in the world, mind you) even more of a grind. Honestly, even though GGG seems extremely proud of their "end-game," it will truly end the game if it remains so awfully limited and repetitive. I've made a few fake patch notes of my own below, both to provide an example of actual changes to the end-game that developers can use for inspiration and to give some of the other players devastated by this disappointing manifesto some better reading material:

Map Changes and Additional End-Game Content in 2.qq
Map Levels and Variety
Previously, our end-game map system was based on a pyramidal structure, where players had a larger number of map options at lower levels and were forced into a smaller selection of more challenging maps if they wanted increased experience gain and potentially better drops. While this system was intended to provide an opportunity to weigh the risk/reward of doing a high level map versus one of the many easier ones, in practice it ultimately made mapping feel too repetitive for a large number of players. For those wishing to grind for experience as they climbed toward level 100, the number of map tile sets that were viable for sufficiently rewarding and efficient leveling was severely limited, and even in lower maps, players often wished to only run a small subset of their favorite maps while avoiding the "bad" ones, effectively limiting the variety they saw as well.

In order to remedy the monotony players sometimes felt due to the aforementioned issues, we have decided to make specific map types not limited to a single map level, meaning players will see a greater variety of content and tile sets at all map levels, but especially at higher ones. This is akin to how Zana missions would often provide a map at a different level than was "standard" for that specific map. The content in some maps is intentionally designed to be more challenging, so individual maps will have a set range of map levels they can roll when dropped. We also wanted the content of the three original level 82 maps to be some of the most challenging in the game, so these specific maps will not be able to roll a level below 82. This means that while you won't be doing a level 70 Core Map, you might enjoy fighting the Flame of Truth in a level 78 Pier Map.

It is still possible that some players will try to mostly run a few specific map types, but we expect the vast majority of players will take this change as an opportunity to do a larger variety of maps and ultimately have a more diverse and exciting mapping experience. Maps will now drop with random levels within their individual ranges, and a trio of maps of the same type and same level can still be traded at vendors for a map one level higher, with the map type being based on the old progression.

Maps with Zana
We have received a fair amount of player feedback suggesting that Zana's missions, particularly her daily missions, often do not feel rewarding for high level characters since the map levels of the areas she provides are often lower than those of content these players would typically run. Based on the available data we've examined, we see where these players are coming from, as many of her missions provide a monster level lower than the other masters' dailies provide once they reach level 8. Since Zana's content focuses on the end-game map system, we feel that her missions should be geared more toward characters whose builds are completed to a greater extent, so the minimum,maximum, and average levels for Zana missions have all been increased slightly. For example, a level 8 Zana will tend to offer level 77 maps in her daily missions and never provide one below level 76, and can even provide a level 79 map for a daily mission, though this will be an uncommon occurrence. After this change is implemented on live servers, we will continue to examine player-generated data to determine if these values need to be tweaked.

While we are not quite yet ready to reveal our plans for future changes to Zana's signature mod, as well as the extent to which certain Zana mods can feel "mandatory" for high level maps, we would like to acknowledge that we have taken community feedback on these issues into consideration and are actively working on these issues. We hope we will be able to update the community on our progress soon.

The Sarn Arena
When we designed the Sarn Arena, we were hoping that it would provide another way for players to enjoy PvP content. However, rather than being a place for excitingly chaotic battles as a large number of players all tried to emerge as the mightiest in an epic bloodbath, our data suggest that it is actually empty most of the time. In fact, even when Leo missions involve the Sarn Arena and lead to peak occupancy of the Sarn Arena, not only is it often still relatively devoid of occupants, but players tend to cooperate to complete these missions as quickly as possible rather than engaging in actual PvP.

The Sarn Arena will therefore be re-purposed, at least for now, for an entirely new end-game activity. The new Arena mode will allow players to challenge themselves with increasingly difficult waves of monsters, providing a refreshingly different experience when a player wished to take a break from end-game maps. Players will be able to select a variety of mods at a central console in their instance of the Sarn Arena (where a shrine used to placed), with these mods affecting anything from monster type and number per wave to active effects in the Arena, such as causing specific Tempests to be active each wave. Many of these mods will also come with an additional implicit reward, such as increased item quantity or rarity, and mods may be stacked for many exciting opportunities for greater challenge and risk/reward evaluation.

While we want the Sarn Arena to feel rewarding to players, it is still our intention that end-game maps be the most viable option for experience gain and item farming. The costs of different mods will therefore be chosen so as not to be outrageous, yet still discourage players from only playing in the Arena and ignoring end-game maps altogether. Initially, the highest monster level that players will be able to face in Arena mode will be capped at 75 so as not to draw top players with endless currency away from maps when trying to achieve high character levels. We will evaluate data concerning player use of the Sarn Arena to determine which mod costs should be tweaked so that the Arena does not become problematic when we increase the experience gain it can provide in the future. We want to make sure the content we add is actually good, as players tend to view removal of even broken content as negative nerfs and are happier when it is instead improved over time in a responsible manner.

Leo dailies will, for now, only focus on different 1v1 matches. For players concerned about a reduction in PvP opportunities, we are working on a free-for-all replacement to the old Sarn Arena and will provide an update when we are further along in developing a new and improved venue.
Drawn by a haunting voice, you come to the PoE forums. It is an odd place, filled with a motley assortment of feedback... and shameless trolling. There, the whining posts are all around you, and the gamers are silent, as the grind takes ahold of them. One by one, their lives seem lost to its call.

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