Map Changes in 2.0.4

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tmaciak wrote:

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vio wrote:

chris: you missed the opportunity to explain your players (again) that the restricted access to endgame is by design so players spend massive currency to access endgame.
this seems the biggest problem for many.

An sole reason this game will never be great, just interesting curiosity in the shadow of D2. Restricting content access was never a good design.

That's really not the same as gating content behind a pay wall. To be fair, it was a pretty small portion of the Diablo II player base that could solo Hell mode. Most hell mode play happened after you got rushed there and then just Baal runs forever, lol.

What we need are easier methods of connecting/partying so we can grind procedural content like we could back in the glory days of infinite Baal runs, imho.

I would say keep the map levels and introduce the map colours.

The current system is really good and simple: The maplevel tells quite simple what itemlevel can drop.

ok, I think a lot of you, in fact most of you are not understanding this 'twice as long to get to lvl100' thing.

First off, I think almost all of you who are complaining about it will not be effected by it and if you were to grind to lvl100 it wouldnt take you twice as long as before because you wouldnt be chaining lvl82 maps to get there. If you are grinding to 100 in lvl77, 78 maps etc as most of us are, it doesnt effect the xp we get.

Think of it like this, pre 2.0 we had lvl78 maps, that was our top maps, now we have lvl82. If I run a lvl78 map on a lvl94 character I get about 1% xp, so pre 2.0 you had to run 100 of these to get from 94 to 95. Now in 2.0 if I run a lvl82 map with the same character I get 5% xp, so you could level up 5 times faster in 2.0 if you are a rich player who can just chain lvl82 maps all day because you buy them from xyz, 5x faster. Now they are making that xp gap in the last few map levels lowers, so now you can only level up 2.5x faster than you could in 1.3. You guys are just seeing "twice as long to lvl100" and then losing your shit without really understanding that this only effects the very highest tiers of maps, and without understanding that those maps were giving us 5x more xp than what we had before 2.0.

People saying "oh leveling in the mid 90s already takes an impossible amount of time", if that is true for you then you are obviously not chaining lvl82 maps where it only takes 20 of them to lvl up and can be done in a single evening of mapping. If its taking you forever, its because you are playing in lvl75-78 maps, and the xp is not changing for those maps, so its not going to effect you that much at all.







Honestly I knew this would happen, the map system needs buffed in some places and nerfed in others, and people just see a nerf, even if it doesnt effect them, and they go crazy. When I heard a dev manifesto was coming I thought theyre going to do something about the insane xp from 82 maps, because they should do something about it, and the result is going to be people saying "omg nerf to casuals" when theres probably also going to be a map drop buff, which is in fact going to be a far bigger net buff for casuals.


I think I meantioned this tier thing ages ago and said they should have been tiers from the off but it will probably never happen now because people are used to lvls and change in itself confusing simply because its change. Surprised they actually added it tbh but people saying no one was confused before, actually there have been an awful lot of occasions where weve had to explain, even to long standing players, that they should not be running around lvl78 maps with lvl78 characters, that lvl78 maps are designed for lvl88+ characters minimum, if not 90+ characters, and that IS counter intuitive to quest zones where a lvl34 zone is actually balanced for a lvl34 character.

But, whatever, the sad truth is people are going to complain no matter what you do honestly, and that sort of sucks because it means real issues and positive changes just get lost in a sea of QQ. Hopefully Qarl and Chris are somewhat expert fishermen and know how to extract what matters from the depths of the salty feedback.





My take on the post is that the things everyone is crying about dont matter, at all, theres no nerfs here that matter. The main change is "map drops are buffed". Well, thats good, is it good enough to make us happy? No idea, theres no figures attached and I dunno that a figure could be attached that could be understood without playing it. Honestly I was hoping for a more mechanical change as I think a few others were, not just a number tweak, like a cap on how low a map can drop which I feel would have been preferable but the proof is in the pudding, we will have to wait and see.






One thought with the map tiers, I see lvl74 maps are part of the yellow bracket of maps. These maps have bosses that are pretty harsh compared to lvl73 and lvl75 bosses already, would it not make more sense to start the yellow bracket of maps at lvl75, and that way regal recipe starts with the yellow bracket of maps and that solves any confusion in that regard?

Don't know why people are celebrating so much. This is clearly depressing news to most of us. I don't care about the few that have no life who reach lvl 100 quickly.

You can't be serious about all this Tier-Stuff-*****?!

Why changing a logical System where the player has nothing to do but comparing his own level with the actual level stated in the map details to an abstractly conversion of a redundant 'tier'-System in which you first have to convert Tiers in levels to compare with actual Player-Levels!?!?

If I imagine beeing new to PoE. After finding my first level 66 map (well in our days its actual level 68) at level 62, I know how hard this could be. With the tier level I find a Tier 1 map instead, How should I know if I'm able to play it or not?

Come on! I really don't see any purpose in this change. Please correct me if I have misunderstand this whole thing, but wouldn't it be easier for players to compare actual game statistics (i.e. levels) instead of converted and renamned 'pseudo' level -Systems?

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There are 15 tiers of maps, from level 68 to 82 inclusive. We've struggled for ages with the confusion caused by this. Players expect to play maps of their level (which can be way too hard for them), or make arguments about that they're level 95+ and can't find a level 80 map. Players with backgrounds in contemporary MMORPGs expect to play content equivalent to their level.

In that case: Wouldn't it be more sensible to balance those maps to the actual Level they are displaying?!

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libstayung wrote:

interesting...but finally, exp gained is being adjusted in response to time it takes to lvl 100, rather than drop rates!

also first :D

yes exactly, a great thing that I think many people havent really grasped. You want the time to reach lvl100 balanced through xp changes or through gating 99% of people out of content? I think the majority of people would want it balanced via xp rather than access if they were sat down and had the entire thing explained to them.

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Chris wrote:

Experience in Top Maps
Due to the increased levels of content in The Awakening and the ever-improving skill of our best players, people are reaching level 100 too quickly. Watching the intense challenge as players complete to reach this amazing accomplishment would be more fun for the community if it lasted longer. We want to make this change without affecting the regular levelling process.

I am bothered by this kind of mentality, lasting longer is better? for whom? the casual players too? When players quit because of disappointment, no one will care about watching anyone at all.

Good changes all around!

Map Drops
If your statistics tell you map drops need to be upped, they probably need to be upped.
This is a much better way to manage the balancing than players whining on the forums :-p

Map Difficulty
About time, but why only 'slightly'?

Map Symbol Colours
Meh. Doesn't bother me... I sort by levels.

Map Levels are now Tiers
Now this one does bother me... Having the maps related to their level made sense and was simple. There is no fix point now for new players getting into mapping when they should actually start doing that.

Experience in Top Maps
I think a much better solution would have been to simply remove L81/82 maps, and redistribute the L77-82 maps across L77-L80. Combined with not doing the tiers, that would have done the job.
Given I'm not one of the top 0.1%, I don't give a rats ass whether it is harder to reach L100.

However, why not just remove the level cap completely? Make L101+ still give skill points, but double to XP required for each level (and maybe even making the level penalty even greater than currently). If there isn't a level cap, players can't whinge that it is too hard to reach it :-p

Ground Effects in Maps
Good, though I haven't personally seen any problems.

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zeldzioszka wrote:

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grawobi wrote:

please stop balancing the game around 1% of the players, because it's definitely the other 99% that pay your bills

+1

+1000

I have got mixed feelings. No, I have negative feelings. It's bassicaly a big nerf. We got more map drops, but the maps themselfes are nerfed back to a sort of upto level 80 content. Chris is not explaining the exact amount drops are boosted. On the other hand high level maps drop around 2-3 levels in XP value and will drop more often. The tier system is introduced to let go of the map levels and essentially disguise the nerf that will be implemented.

Personally I think I prefer the old situation that a rare high level map is valuable, rare and adds a lot of XP for the people playing the endgame of the endgame.
Now we are back to the 2.0 system where the rarest of maps are sold for 0.5ex and leveling is as grindy as it can be.