Flicker Strike

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Mark_GGG wrote:

So I think we can all agree that this skill isn't acting in the way people would like in all cases.
Here's my current proposed behaviour set:
Flickerstrike without target: picks random target in range, as it does now.
Flickerstrike with target, target is in range: flicker to the target.
Flcikerstrike with target, target is out of range, shift not held: Walk until target is in range, then flciker to target.
Flickerstrike with target, target is our of range, shift is held: Nothing - there's not really anything that it makes sense to do here. But override the fall-back-to-default behaviour for this case, so you don't walk up and do a default attack.

Do people agree? disagree? any suggestions for ways this can be improved?

@Charan: Preventing you using it on the same target twice in a row isn't really something we can do (without a lot of hacking at it at the very least). We could potentially add a minimum distance, but then what happens if you try to target someone within that distance? do you automatically walk away until they're at the right distance? I'm not particularly happy with any of the options there, so would rather not implement such a minimum.

I agree, minimum distance is bad. I concede that idea; I was merely brainstorming based entirely on the prose description of the skill. What if the majority (not all, but most) of the skill's damage came in the form of a non-stacking very short duration DoT? Something like Puncture? I mentioned Viper Strike and how once it hits 4 stacks, there's no use in applying it until the stacks fall off. It occurred to me that puncture applies a relatively uncommon status effect, and that Flicker Strike might well be the perfect skill to see it inflicted more often. I'm still just brainstorming, mind you.

I understand the rationale behind flicker strike working even if you don't target: the Duelist is perhaps moving even quicker than his mind. He's going on instinct and adrenaline. I'm still not sure if that makes it too spammable, but like I said, with the cool down being discussed, that probably won't be an issue anyway.

One thing I didn't address and would probably be broken is the idea of the Duelist in the description being almost dead. Could 'low life' also be a means of bypassing the cooldown? Like I said, that might create some broken builds. Just working with that skill description yet again.

Thanks for the reply, Mark.

Those changes sound good, Mark.

In my opinion, Flicker Strike could do with a simple, good old damage reduction.

I think it should be used as what it is: A way to zoom between monsters and "dance" through combat fast. But the problem is that it hurts, and it hurts a lot, so it's used as a main damage skill. Its damage should be cut in half at least, so DPS is achieved by other means.

That, plus the behaviour improvements, and I think we're set.


Really, it's not a good indicator of design that when playing my Shadow I have to refrain from using FS, because it takes the fun away. Reminds me of the shield from Castlevania SOTN. Self-imposed restrictions for the sake of challenge aren't good =).

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Falcord wrote:

Those changes sound good, Mark.

In my opinion, Flicker Strike could do with a simple, good old damage reduction.

I think it should be used as what it is: A way to zoom between monsters and "dance" through combat fast. But the problem is that it hurts, and it hurts a lot, so it's used as a main damage skill. Its damage should be cut in half at least, so DPS is achieved by other means.

That, plus the behaviour improvements, and I think we're set.


Really, it's not a good indicator of design that when playing my Shadow I have to refrain from using FS, because it takes the fun away. Reminds me of the shield from Castlevania SOTN. Self-imposed restrictions for the sake of challenge aren't good =).

Crissaegrim, shield rod+Alucard shield...to name but a few.

The problem with damage reduction is it might run the risk of not being the quick-kill that the description conveys. This is why something has to be in play that turns it into a hard-hitter. But then we need to think of drawbacks. I can name plenty. Reduced defence, conditional cooldown (the current solution)...or another I'd sort of like (based on how traps work right now): limited usage before cooldown kicks in. I've noticed that a fire trap can be used three times but then the cooldown begins. You can use another fairly quickly afterwards or you can wait for the full cool down and unleash another three.

Why not something like that for flicker strike? You can do four of them quickly but then have to wait a little while to do another, and then another...or you can let it fully recharge and go wild again say, 15-20 seconds later or whatever?

Maybe that is what was meant by cooldown in the first place. I'm not sure. I just dislike the idea of Flicker Strike being reduced to one attack at a time with gaps between each and no other option. At least this way you'd be given the choice between 4 killer blows occasionally or 1 killer blow fairly regularly, or even 2 killer blows somewhere in between that.

Flicker only needs two changes to make it balanced:

1) Make it require a target. Attempting to activate the skill without a valid target would have no effect.

2) Make it dodgeable. A slight (1/4 ~ 1/2 second) delay before teleport, with some sort of visible indicator to show where the flicker user is going to appear, would work well (and the same mechanic would also do a good job of fixing similar issues with cold snap).

These changes would prevent scenarios where players take unavoidable damage vs flicker monsters (or players, when pvp balance time comes round), and would also prevent the current mindless playstyle where the flicker player just holds down right click while drinking potions.

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KoTao wrote:

2) Make it dodgeable. A slight (1/4 ~ 1/2 second) delay before teleport, with some sort of visible indicator to show where the flicker user is going to appear, would work well (and the same mechanic would also do a good job of fixing similar issues with cold snap).

This seems a really cool idea to me, like if a wireframe flashed where you ARE and where you are GOING to be, for just a split second. How long exactly would be ideal, I don't know. It would have to be quick, but long enough to give a chance at avoiding it if you're paying attention.

But then the question is if this still works with the intended functionality of the skill.

I kinda like the other idea where one can flicker say, 3 times, and then the skill needs a recharge period.

Yes, after thinking about it I'm all for the "trap-like" cooldown, or how I think GGG calls it: Ammunition count.

Give FS four "charges", and make them recharge every 5 seconds. So you can spend them all at once for fast attack and then wait longer for their recharge, or spread them.

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KoTao wrote:

Flicker only needs two changes to make it balanced:

1) Make it require a target. Attempting to activate the skill without a valid target would have no effect.

2) Make it dodgeable. A slight (1/4 ~ 1/2 second) delay before teleport, with some sort of visible indicator to show where the flicker user is going to appear, would work well (and the same mechanic would also do a good job of fixing similar issues with cold snap).

These changes would prevent scenarios where players take unavoidable damage vs flicker monsters (or players, when pvp balance time comes round), and would also prevent the current mindless playstyle where the flicker player just holds down right click while drinking potions.

At first I really didn't like the second suggestion, but I suppose it could maybe be OK. It's definitely a way to fix many problems without seemingly much work. I guess it comes down to the amount of delay and the damage increase the skill would get due to it.

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VideoGeemer wrote:

This seems a really cool idea to me, like if a wireframe flashed where you ARE and where you are GOING to be, for just a split second. How long exactly would be ideal, I don't know. It would have to be quick, but long enough to give a chance at avoiding it if you're paying attention.

I'm pretty sure the delay doesn't need to be long at all. Already the attack period of the weapon affects a delay for the target to escape. I think adding a delay so that a target that's moving at normal speed wouldn't get hit most of the time (depends on where the teleport was and how fast the weapon is though) could work. More delay could also work, but adding too much time could make the skill kinda useless (but that would probably have to be tested)

just nerf the hell out of the damage and leave if imho or if you have to make it less spammable make it like a trap 4 flickers cool down of few seconds on each one i would just test a huge damage nerf first thou shadow needs flicker and whirling blades dont gimp the strategic use of the skill let us flicker to the target when we want but just make it so a dual dtrike or double strike is far more effective then spamming it honestly make flicker do less dmg then a normal attack leave everything else the same we should be encouraged to flicker in dual strike whirling blades out on a shadow

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BattleSmurf wrote:

just nerf the hell out of the damage and leave if imho or if you have to make it less spammable make it like a trap 4 flickers cool down of few seconds on each one i would just test a huge damage nerf first thou shadow needs flicker and whirling blades dont gimp the strategic use of the skill let us flicker to the target when we want but just make it so a dual dtrike or double strike is far more effective then spamming it honestly make flicker do less dmg then a normal attack leave everything else the same we should be encouraged to flicker in dual strike whirling blades out on a shadow

Despite the terrible writing I fully agree with you.