[3.10] Sovyn's Lazy Pally - Tanky Templar with Max Block

About auras, some of them increase manacost insanly fast, clarity is def one of them. And i dont use so much mana that i need more then it gives at level 3. trying to read loads of guides but so far they are very different... some are very specific about what gems to level before they start to cost more and more mana. I have the same problem with anger, when it's just 50mana i dont notice it, and now ive leveled it up to fast...to be able to use it .-)

for example 'cleave', if you level it to level 6 it has the same mana cost as level 1, but higher damage. At level 7 it starts to increase base mana cost, but only some phys damage.
%-auras dont increase on cost, so they should be leveled as much as possible.

Hello Sovyn and all,

I have found some inspiration in this thread and have a few questions if anyone has time...
I am a lvl 65 tank templar, ready to spend my passive respecs to get ready for maps. I followed my own misguided concept of a build, so I won't post my quasi-failed tree yet (both physical and ele in templar, Bulwark, Mara hp nodes, RT, lava lash, blood drinker). I run the following, all with a max of 4Ls:

Attack: Infernal Blow, Life Leech, Melee Splash, Faster Attacks
Auras: Hatred, Determination, Purity (off mana) Anger, Wrath, Clarity (off life)
Totem: Decoy or Fire usually (off life)
Self-buff: Molten Shield (off life)
Curse: Various (enfeeble, ele weakness) (off mana)

I am still using gear I found while leveling, so my stats are mediocre, but I want a firm grasp on the build I want before I go gear shopping. Here's what I have now:

HP: about 1.9K, 1.6K useable
Dmg: about 1.3K melee splash
Resist: 77% ele, 15% phys dmg reduction
block: approx. 45%


I differ a bit from the guide here (I read all 58 pages over three days) in that I really value the totem/curse/self buff. I agree, however, that endurance charges are a pain to keep up - so I'm the sorta-lazy pally.

3 biggest questions:

Mana regen, stuns, and physical dmg reduction.


Mana regen. I currently use one 2% mana leech ring, which does ok on keeping my very small mana pool refilled (combined with a lvl 3 clarity) on group of mobs where melee splash is doing good enough dmg to compensate for the low physical portion of Infernal Blow. I sometimes get mana starved on single-target bosses. (I keep a heavy strike in my bag for these). I had a mana leech gem instead of faster attacks, but I was swinging way too slow - I'm concerned that as I upgrade to 5L or 6L, the added mana drain will make it impossible to run Infernal Blow, and that I'll have to run a physical attack instead (even with 4% physical leech). Assuming that Infernal Blow will cost 45 mana/swing once upgraded and linked, does anyone have any experience or advice on being able to maintain it without a mana leech gem? If that's not possible, I may have to ditch Infernal Blow and run a Heavy Strike/melee splash build, but that's not as appealing to me...

Stuns were absolutely killing me awhile ago. I got a little more HP on my gear and it's not as big of an issue anymore, but that could easily change if the mobs get harder (which they will). For reasons stated in this guide, I would love to NOT take Unwavering Stance, however stuns have probably led to 90% of my Merciless deaths... How my HP do I need to avoid taking Unwavering Stance and clear high level maps without big stun problems?

Lastly, physical dmg reduction. The reason I run molten shell (10% more) and determination (5% more) is for the added armor they give. I realize that I still have on whatever gear I found while leveling, and that the armor value is probably lacking. Without endurance charges, however, how high are y'all getting your phys dmg reduction, b/c this and stuns are my biggest problems surviving atm.

Again, I've got my 14 respec pts and 7 new passive pts waiting to spend. Just need some feedback to decide where to put them before I go gear shopping and hit maps! Thanks for your inputs,

Tref

You have to level up your gems up to the maximum you can maintain.
High cost comes by having linked a lot of gems with high multipliers. Each support gem has a specific mana Cost multiplier, for instance, Faster Attacks has x1.1 mana multiplier (also you attack faster so you will consume more mana per second), Knockback has x1 mana multiplier (don't increase mana cost), Weapon Elemental Damage has x1.7 mana Cost multiplier...

As you pointed, think about how much intelligence or dexterity you have to maintain the gem. Some of your attributes comes from your gear, so if you level your gem using this extra attributes from gear, you'll be locked to use it and find difficult to replace that item with extra attributes.

I rarely level up my gem using the extra attributes from my gear, so I'm not dependant on them.


Auras could use a percentage of your mana, like Hatred, or a fix amount that depends on the gem level, like Clarity. The latter could be used with Magic Blood to be supported by life, instead of mana. That way you'll be able to run more auras.
About clarity, it happened if you divide the mana regeneration / mana reserved, you found once past level 6? you didn't getas much mana regeneration for each mana reserved, so you can read on some guides you don't have to go further than level xxx. It changed some patches ago, now the more leveled Clarity is, the more mana regeneration / mana reserved you get. It doesn't mean you have to go always up to level 20. It's wrong if you level it too much if it reserves a lot of your mana and you can't spam your skills, no matter if you regenerate a lot.
Find your balance here.

Other than auras with reserved mana based on gem level, I repeat you have to level up to the maximum you can maintain.

@Tref

Mana regeneration.
You have the key in your mind. It's easier using a physical attack like Heavy Strike (has x1.5 damage multiplier), rather than Infernal Blow (has x1.25 multiplier), then having some items with Mana Leech on it.
The more physical damage you deal, the more mana leech you get.

I have only 2% mana leech and is enough to keep my low mana pool full.

I have no experience using Infernal Blow with this build, but I'd say roughly you deal half of your physical damage, so perhaps you need 4% mana leech. Of course, Mana Leech gem will solve your problem as it applies also to elemental damage. Unfortunately it means you loose one damage support gem.
Also if you use Infernal Blow, you'd like to use Weapon Elemental Damage, that is one of the highest mana support gem.

I'd say stay with Mana Leech, Weapon Elemental Damage and another one of your choice, Added Fire Damage to play withLava Lash?

Another option would be going to Blood Magic passive. Say goodbye to your mana problems, and to your percentage auras too. Replace your Mana Leech gem by Life Leech gem. But your actual life looks to me too low.


Stun
It worried to me too before I started to use this build. But I have never had any problem with stun lock.
I think the key here is to maximize your block chances. You're a low on block.
You have passives that gives you %block recovery, so I really don't know if I ever go stunned.
Maybe increasing your evasion chance could help too. If you evade, you won't be stunned. Running Grace could help.


Physical Damage Reduction.
I think I am only 15% (level 73).
But I'm 75% block and over 43% evasion (plus Ondar's Guile).
My avoidance is high.
I run Grace, Hatred (physical weapon) and Tempest Shield. All go to mana pool.
I don't run Determination, maybe I should move Grace to life then run Determination, but it will drop my life and I don't have too much (2.8k I think).


You can post your actual build and doubts if you want. Probably someone would be able to help you

@Kahoraho,

Thx for the response.


Every time I think about running a pure physical build, I play with Infernal Blow a bit, watch an entire screen blow up around me, and think, 'hell yeah, this is awesome!' I can run it fine now, but 2x more linked gems including the dreaded 1.7 wep ele dmg gives me pause for concern. Just not sure if I can go 4% or even 6% phys mana leech and solve it though... When I run Heavy Strike, the mana is almost 100% full always.

You would think lava lash would play great with added fire, and it helps, but it's not the end-all be-all. I did a lot of number crunching this morning, and lava lash in an infernal blow, wpn ele dmg, added fire build is worth about 1:1 physical (i.e., its the same as a 30% physical node). One of the best nodes for dmg in the build, but not a build-breaker...

I should have posted earlier that I'm not going to go BM with this toon. Saving that build for my marauder, but I do understand that would solve the mana issue (and create others :).

I know I'm a bit low on block. I was running Tempest Shield for awhile, but 4% block just wasn't worth Purity or Hatred. I may look at putting it back in instead of Determination. Or getting the 10% less mana reserved and running all 4... The other problem is that I found a Kite Shield with 150% overall to resists and I've had a hard time giving it up for a better blocking shield (that and some mistakes with passives early haven't let me get to Duelist tree yet)

I will look at running Grace as I really don't want to go Unwavering Stance if I don't have to.

Will post my current build and proposed after I think about it and then figure out how.

Tref

Just FYI for others, the order of effectiveness for support gems (this was based on my stats, gear, and passives (81% ele dmg, 60% phys, 351 STR, 48% fire) so take it with a grain of salt):

Infernal Blow:
Wpn Elemental Dmg
Faster Attacks
Wpn Physical
Added Fire (4th place, even with lava lash)
added cold/light/chaos far lower...
(did not look at concentrated effect, but it may be awesome with IB)

Heavy Strike:
Faster Attacks
Wpn Physical and Added Fire are tied
Wpn elemental (if you run the 3 ele dmg auras, it ends up in a tie w/faster attacks)
added cold/light/chaos far lower...

Awesome replies Kaho and Hiero. Definitely solves some of the burning questions I had. Tref's post was also informative as I was wondering about getting chained stunned, but I guess for Sovyn he played gear with stun recovery to offset not having Unwavering Stance.

I think Unwavering Stance is very good for other melee builds, they avoid stun completely.
Bur this build, have block maxed and some evasio, so you avoid most hits.
As you pull some %block chance recovery from passives, I can say stun is not a problem at all for me (running low maps atm). It may be a problem when you're levelling and undergeared.

@Trefenwyd69

Hello! I run the lazy pally build with infernal blow. I just dinged L83 yesterday and like you, I really just enjoy watching the entire room blow up with a few well-timed hits. :) I'm not a major number cruncher and I have deviated from Sovyn's build a little. The ranger tree rebalanced actually brought my build closer to Sovyn's build.

Here is my L83 passive tree.



Some key statistics:

Block: 74% (not max yet. need one more level)
Dodge: 28% with grace
Armor: 11K (55% reduction)
IB DPS: ~10K (anger, hatred, haste)

The big difference between my build and the default build is that I picked up the mana flow passive in the Duelist tree. I'm also mostly armor based rather than evasion based. I only have one piece of armor that has evasion (helmet). I depend mostly on the Grace aura for my evasion.

With mana flow and a 2% mana leech ring, I rarely run out of mana. I do bring along one mana pot for the rare moments when I do. One thing I noticed is that you put a large emphasis on elemental dmg since you are getting a big boost from the Weapon Elemental Dmg gem. My 1h axe is mostly physical so I actually get a bigger boost from added fire than anything. The other advantage is that I get a lot of mana leech because I start with a large physical (then halved because of IB).

I also agree with most of the other posters regarding stun. I'm about 3.6K life and together with the high block, I rarely get stunned. I think that frozen is actually a bigger problem as you move into maps. Bring a pot with dispel frozen and you would be golden.

Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions about my build.

(Edited for third spoiler build add)

@Dwarg,

Thanks for the reply.

My current build (for laughs)



To get where you or Sovyn are right now would require respecing 25 or so passives. I'm not that rich . . . so I played around with the tree a bit and came up with the following basic 82 pt templar tank build that includes the mara life nodes (which I probably wont respec out of due to cost).




From here, one could progress to:
Leather and Steel
Reduced mana reserved
Center axe nodes (3) for dps if going axes
Catalyse if significant ele dps
Steel Skin for armor
Mara dps nodes (4) for generic dps
Strongarm nodes (3) for generic dps
the Ranger tree for more block/Ondar's Guile, etc.

The biggest downside to respeccing this is the large loss of INT - I may even take an int node so I'm not juggling the int on the armor game (like I am now with Dex in my current build).

Taking that basic 82 pt build and applying it to my already screwed up tree, I came up with the following as an 80 pt respec that I can afford and I think hits most of the desired points and sets me up well for the next 10 or so.



Comments?

Tref

"

Xiaoyen wrote:

Why not resist?

The resist bandit reward is a waste because this build has 44% elemental resists on the tree and purity aura. The remaining resist needed to cap you out will be acquired easily on gear.